Joshua touches on this subject in his recent article The Bible Code Controversy. Personally I believe there are, but of course it is of the utmost importance to carefully examine whatever you find in order to preclude the possibility of errors or coincidences.
Why would there have to be codes in the Bible to begin with?
Actually I believe there are codes everywhere to be found by those who are ready to find them and in the fields that they are interested in. That might be nature, or the zodiac, or alphabets (hieroglyphs or holy characters are not called holy for nothing), or mythologies and archetypes, to name just a few. The reason they are there is because I believe we ourselves, as divine sparks of the fire that is God, put them there as signposts before we descended out of a world of higher awareness into this world of matter, duality and separation. You might say we programmed a whole variety of choices in experiences and then put on a blindfold of forgetfulness in order to meet the adventure open minded. However, there was the possibility of getting lost in this world, so we put up these signposts everywhere in order to find our way back again when we were ready to do so.
In the Hebrew Bible there seem to be very intricate codes that you can find only when doing all sorts of complicated procedures but those are not the ones I am involved in. They may be very valuable, I do not know, but for our everyday life I found the simplest codes also the most effective. They give real pointers how to deal with the difficult things in life and what might be the reason for them. In my previous articles I have already written a lot about them.
The basis of the esoteric interpretation of the Hebrew Bible is the alphabet and the fact that each character is both a letter and a number. Besides that each character has a name as well, which sometimes is used in the interpretation.
- The Hebrew alphabet does not contain vowels, which makes it possible to see different words (and meanings) in the same word as you have to supply the vowels for yourself in your mind.
- There are some consonants however that are sometimes used as vowels. For instance the wav can be read as a ‘w’, a consonant, but also as an ‘o’, ‘u’ or ‘ou’, which are vowels; and the jod can be used as ‘j’, a consonant, or ‘i’, a vowel.
An example of this is the word for ‘animal skin’, or, 70-6-200. The wav, 6, is used as a the vowel ‘o’ here. The word or is used here to describe the physical bodies that Adam and Eve receive by descending into ever denser energy and incarnating into the world of matter, duality and separation. Until then they had had bodies of light, also called or, but written as 1-6-200. The ajin, 70, and the aleph, 1, are letters that are not pronounced and as such both words sound the same but have a different meaning. This change from 1 to 70 also implies the change from oneness to multiplicity, from finer, etheric light bodies to bodies of physical matter. It shows the lowering in vibrational frequency.
The word 70-6-200 can also be read as iwer, which means ‘blind’; in this case the wav is used as the letter ‘w’. The meaning of this blindness is that they have become blind to oneness and unity, to higher awareness, and their two eyes have opened for duality and separation.
- As each character is a number, a word has a numerical value as well, made up by the total of the values of its characters.
- Words that share the same numerical value are connected to each other in meaning as well, which I have shown in the words nachash, serpent, and mashiach, messiah or anointed one, in my previous article, The Tree of Judgment.
- Words can be interpreted by interpreting each separate character first and then putting the different meanings together in order to make them into a meaningful whole.
- Words can be split up in different ways: in a number and another word, or two words, as for instance the word ‘cross’, which is tselav in Hebrew, 90-30-2. This can be seen as tsel-2, or shadow of duality, world of duality, or as 90-lev, birth of the heart (lev) after a long process (remember Sara being ‘90’ when she gave birth to Isaac, another code).
This kind of regular codes as it were can be found throughout the Bible but there are special pointers when your attention is drawn to a very special meaning or interpretation, like:
- characters being written extra large or small, above or below the line, or even upside down, as I have heard about but which I have never seen.
- a spelling ‘mistake’ in the Torah, where no mistakes are allowed, so if there seems to be one, then that must have a special meaning.
- adding or taking away one or more letters (mostly the consonants that are used as vowels or are not even pronounced at all) in a word in order to get a certain numerical value or to make it possible or impossible to read a certain word in it.
An example of this is the word arum, 70-200-6-40, which means ‘naked or subtle’. Arum can be read as er-6-40. Er means ‘awake’ and it is connected by the character wav – which means ‘hook’ – to the character mem, which means majim, or ‘water’ as a word. Water is a symbol for ego and emotions.
When in the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 it is written that they were not aware / ashamed, one esoteric interpretation is that they were awake / had a high awareness and that they already were connected to an ego but that this ego did not function yet. After they had eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil though, they suddenly became aware of the fact that they were naked, that they had an ego.
However, they were not awake any longer as the word ‘naked’, arum, was suddenly written: 70-10-200-40. A jod was added, which is the first letter of the Name of God as used in the Hebrew language in this material world, JHWH. They were on their way now to experience all sorts of difficult things because of the activation of their ego but God (10) was there with them. The divine spark was still there inside them, although they (it?) had fallen asleep.
But not only that. Something has disappeared as well, as Robert pointed out to me. The six, the wav that functioned as the hook that had connected Man to his / her not yet functioning ego, is no longer there. Man and his ego are no longer connected but have become one. From here the ego takes over.
Remember the deep sleep, the tardema, that God put Adam in before separating his male and female sides from each other and making them independent?
It was not some sort of anaesthesia. Nowhere does it say that Adam woke up. This tardema or deep sleep was the process of descending slowly into this world of matter and separation. And we are still asleep, although not as deeply anymore. We now have come to realize that we are asleep and live in a world of illusion that is not real. We are in the process of waking up and will start ascending soon, if we are not doing so already.
Another example of how codes are used is Exodus 19, with the story about God giving the Ten Commandments, literally the Ten Words, to the people of Israel in the desert.
Ex. 19:16-19 in the KJV: “And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.”
It is a story of energy and vibrational frequency, even literally. There is a mountain involved. In earlier and later verses Moses is going up the mountain, ascending, which means ‘raising his awareness, his vibrational frequency’, and God is coming down, descending, onto the top of the mountain. God’s frequency is lowered in order to be able to communicate. They are tuning in, you might say. The people are nowhere near those high frequencies yet, so they are positioned at the foot of the mountain, just after things start happening. There is thunder and lightning and exceedingly loud sounds; there is trembling and shaking, both of the people and the mountain itself.
And there is an anomaly in spelling to draw the attention.
In verse 16 it is written that there was the sound (voice) of a shofar, a trumpet. The mountain is called Sinai in verse 18.
- Sinai is 60-10-50-10, total numerical value 130.
- The word ‘sound’ in Hebrew is qol, normally written as 100-6-30, so in total 136, even in the verses just before and after this verse, but in verse 16 the six is taken out and it is written as 100-30, also 130 in total.
- The word shofar is 300-80-200, which adds up to 580.
In previous articles I have shown the importance of the number thirteen in Hebrew. Both the word echad, meaning ‘one, oneness, unity’, and the word ahava, meaning ‘love’, have a numerical value of thirteen.
Fifty eight proved to be the numerical value of the word chen, meaning ‘grace, mercy, love’, and also of the name of the mountain from which Moses ascended at the end of his life, the Nebo. You can read this name as 50-bo, meaning ‘higher awareness is in him’. Fifty is here a symbol of higher awareness and bo means ‘in him’. Far from being punished by not being allowed to enter the Promised Land, Moses did not have to enter it anymore.
In this scene in the Sinai desert we find the multiplication by ten of both these values 13 and 58, because all is pervaded by the divine energy of God (10). And the word qol in this verse has been purposely adapted to a value of 130 in order to point to the importance of those meanings.
Finally I want to show an example of a pattern which can only be found if you are willing to consider that the New Testament – especially the Gospels – was written in Hebrew instead of in Greek. This is anathema to the theologians as only manuscripts in Greek seem to have survived the times. In Jerusalem however there are (or were almost forty years ago) some Roman Catholic Bible scholars doing research into this possibility. I attended a lecture, given by one of them, which interested me enormously. Unfortunately I have forgotten his name.
These scholars had come to the conclusion that the Greek manuscripts had been translations (and bad ones at that) from Hebrew originals. They had translated the Greek texts back into Hebrew and found that words that had been unintelligible to them in Greek, sounded in their Hebrew translation remarkably like other Hebrew words that made much more sense. He gave many details, even whole sentences, but unfortunately I have forgotten those as well. I never forgot the lecture and its essence though and I remembered them again when I started to find hidden meanings in the New Testament myself. That could only happen because Hebrew translations of certain words started popping up in my head when I was almost meditatively concentrating on the texts. That is when I started to believe that these scholars’ theory might be right.
This example shows a resemblance and a connection that I discovered between two Hebrew terms, one at the very beginning of Genesis and the other in the final chapter of the Gospel of John in a Hebrew translation of the New Testament.
Genesis 1 starts with the word Bereshit, with a very big bet, the number two, to indicate that duality is being created here, followed by the verb bara, created.
Bereshit bara, in the beginning created… It has been interpreted as ‘with a beginning created …’ or even as ‘with a point created …’. The reshit is this point – you might also call it purpose – that it is all about. It is duality that is being created, as even the word bara, 2-200-1, shows by occurring twice in these few words.
Bereshit bara is written in numbers: 2-200-1– 300-10-400 2-200-1
- 2 involution into the world of duality.
- 200 the point of the greatest distance from the world of unity and oneness, and the pinnacle of separation.
- 1 return to oneness.
That is the whole cycle that seems to repeat itself continuously in the Bible stories, spiralling upwards in ever higher forms towards the birth of the Christ Consciousness that follows the same pattern in the life and death of Jesus and his resurrection and ascension. But of course it is also our story, the story of mankind, over and over again.
At the end of the story, in John 21, we find Jesus after his resurrection back in Galilee, on the shore of the Lake of Tiberias, Jam Tveriah, in Hebrew. It is the only time that this lake is called by that name in the New Testament, so that must have a meaning.
- Jam and Jom can be seen as the same word. Jam, ‘lake or sea’, can also be interpreted as ‘day’ or ‘period’.
- Tveriah, 9- 2-200 -10-5, can be read as 9- bar -Jah. Bar means both ‘pure’ and ‘son’. So what we see here is: the period, or the point in time, (jom) of the birth (9) of the purity – or the son – (bar) of God (10-5, the first two letters of JHWH).
Within this context we see Jesus watch his disciples, who are trying to catch some fish without any result. He then tells them to throw out the net ‘on the other side’.
The disciples cast out their nets. A net in Hebrew is reshet, 200-300-400. These are the last three characters of the Hebrew alphabet; the last three possibilities to express yourself in this material world of illusion we still live in. So maybe you might see it as using your last resources or your last strength in order to accomplish your task.
- The numerical value of the last two characters together is 700, which means ‘fulfilling this task is the completion of this world of duality and the seventh day’. The total numerical value of the word reshet is 900, which means that the time of the birth of a great new cycle and a beautiful new world is there.
The result of their action is that they catch 153 fishes. The fishes here are a symbol of everything that was still lying hidden in the water that is a symbol of ego and emotions. They bring it all up to the surface to be looked at and examined.
There are several ways to come to the number of 153. One is based on the number seventeen as the last bitter phase before something new and beautiful starts. When you add up all numbers from one till seventeen, you get one hundred and fifty three. It means going through all seventeen phases of your life and examining them, processing and digesting them and then call it all good, tov, 9-6-2 = 17.
In the story this process is explained / executed again as they put the fishes on a fire (purification) and ‘eat’ them, which is again processing and digesting.
All this, of course, following the voice of the Christ Consciousness that finally had woken up in them.
The connection between the first word of Genesis and the last chapter of the Gospel of John is the resemblance between these two terms bereshit, ‘in the beginning’, and bareshet, ‘in the net’, and in what they stand for: the beginning and the end of a cycle respectively.
In bereshit, 2-200-1-300-10-400 we find an aleph, 1 and a jod, 10, that are both missing in bareshet, 2-200-300-400. In order to get to the numerical values of 700 and 900 and what they stand for, these two extra characters have to disappear. The bet in both terms is not part of the words reshit and reshet but stands for the word ‘in or with’ and as such does not count in this example. As the Christ Consciousness has woken up in the disciples and their actions lead to the return to oneness, these numbers 1 and 10 do not have to be visibly present anymore in the word reshet.
Thus bereshit and the following verb bara together stand for the ‘purpose’ it was all about at the beginning of creation: the involution / evolution cycle of spiritual development in the world of matter and duality, of separation.
And then bareshet is the final phase of this world, with the process of bringing up the last issues to be cleared and healed and the birth of a new great cycle and a beautiful new world.
Anny,
You have made so many excellent points here I don’t know where to begin. One incident you pointed out where God met Moses on the mountain that I had never considered: the Bible reveals that Moses goes up the mountain, which esoterically means to raise one’s awareness, which I had known. But I never considered that God came down to the mountain by lowering frequency in order to communicate, showing unity and oneness between God and man, and the entire range of vibrational frequency possible within. The anomaly in spelling you pointed out linking the sound of the shofar and Sinai was really neat!
I also enjoyed the connection between the Old and New Testaments and the possibility that the New Testament in Greek is a bad copy of an original Hebrew. You used the beginning of Genesis (bereshit bara) and the End of the Gospel of John (jam tveriah) to show the process of duality from beginning to end. Fascinating! I would have never made such a detailed connection. Maybe if you could find enough of these connections, Anny, you could write a book making a great case that the New Testament was indeed originally all in Hebrew. You certainly have the aptitude for it.
Anny, while I doubt the Bible Code written by Drosnin is really valid, I completely agree with you that there are codes in the Bible, and I agree that they are purposely there for us to discover. Personally I believe that the prophets and seers who wrote the Bible were in trances as they copied the text down, and your post reinforces that for me: it almost seems humanly impossible to write down such beautiful literal stories with all of the codes hidden within from purely human intellect.
Thanks for such an enlightening post!
Hi Josh,
Thank you for your beautiful comment.
The idea for this article came to me when I had commented to Raymond’s last article and suddenly tumbled to the resemblance between the terms ‘bereshit’ and ‘bareshet’. Especially since it was soon followed by your article about the Bible Code in Drosnin’s book.
It gave me the beginning of an idea and also an opportunity to explain all the characteristics of the Hebrew characters in one post, instead of the smaller bits and pieces that were divided over many articles. I hope it is now clearer for everyone but I know from experience that what the writer of an article sees as very clear indeed does not necessarily have to be that to other people.
When my husband had read the article, he was suddenly reminded of the lecture in Jerusalem too and started doing some research on the internet in the concerning matter. He came up with the following link that does indeed have some interesting information.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/bookstore/e-books/ntgh.pdf
So those of you who are interested, see for yourself. I have not had time enough to do more than glance at it but what I saw looked interesting.
Anny:
What an article! I completely agree with Joshua that there are many interesting concepts contained in it. For one, the possibility that the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew is very intriguing to me. I also love the idea of our having put on a “blindfold of forgetfulness upon our arrival in order to meet the adventure open minded.” I see all life as an adventure, with nothing ever “wrong.” However, I see our blindness to what actually is, while focusing on the “appearance” of what is, to be the chief culprit in all of the “crimes” (for lack of a better term) committed on the physical plane.
I would LOVE to get my hands on the Hebrew New Testament, if that is possible. I think it would open up a whole new dimension of understanding. There is a massive taint in the common NT translations from Greek to English, and some of the translations simply don’t make much sense to me given the understandings I have derived from my current foundation. The 7th Chapter of 1 Corinthians is one such concept. Marriage is all about the relationship between man and the inner-Christ, and esoterically has nothing to do with a physical man’s relationship with a physical woman at all. I personally believe the translators royally screwed up the meaning of that chapter. A more veracious translation could certainly clear up some of the misunderstanding. A Hebrew translation, if in fact that is the original language (of course I am not so sure about that), could certainly shed some light on that.
Your take on the number 153 is also fascinating. I’ll have to reread and digest your thoughts on that. It is amazing to me that the addition of the numbers one through 17 equals 153. I just did the math on that. Veeeery interesting!
You see a connection between “bereshit” and “bareshet and connect it to the beginning and end of a cycle. That is also interesting. I see that same connection with “yatsar” (form) and bara (create) as the beginning and end of the creation cycle. Man was “yatsar” (formed) (Gen. 2:7) to be “bara” (created (in the image and likeness of God)) (Gen. 1:27).
Thank you for an excellent article, Anny. It gives me much to think about and mull over.
Hello Paul,
Thanks for your comment. I got my New Testament in Hebrew in Jerusalem many years ago, but that of course is in Hebrew characters. I do not know if you read those. Maybe you can find some information about it on the internet.
As you may have seen already my husband did find some information on the internet about the idea of a Hebrew original instead of a Greek one for the New Testament and I provided the link in my reply to Josh. I am glad that I am not the only one who is (still?) considering that possibility. This link provides also a dictionary of 500 words out of the New Testament in both Greek and Hebrew, with an English translation and sometimes explanation, I believe. I only took a quick glance at it to check it out till now.
As far as the explanation of the 153 fish is concerned, I am afraid that the honours for that one go to prof. Weinreb, although I phrased his reasoning in my words after so many years. There is also a possibility of 9 x 17, which was brought up by someone else, but I do not remember the reasoning behind that. The same goes for adding up 120 and 33.
I believe the number 17 (10 & 7) also has great meaning. I actually studied (or tried to study) this number a few years ago, but without even a modicum of success, so I still have no idea about these numbers. Maybe it’s a Hebrew thing because my studies usually turn up many hidden gems, but absolutely nothing with these numbers.
Hello Paul,
I only know something about prof. Weinreb’s interpretation of this number and that begins and ends with the word ‘tov’, 9-6-2 = 17, good.
In Genesis 1 it is shown that each ‘day’ of creation, or world period, or cycle, was pronouced ‘good’ at the end. And world periods were said to have ended in fire or floods, which can be seen as the bitter phase, before a new and more advanced evolutionary cycle started, the next ‘day’ or world.
Of course it has been described the most plainly in the Joseph story by stating literally that he was seventeen years old when he was sold into slavery and brought to Egypt, which stands for the world of duality and matter and all that it entails, and as such he is the one son of Jakob who fully incarnates first and because of that became a symbol for the physical body. However, in the end he does not become a real slave as he becomes master over the forces of Egypt, over his ego, and as such becomes the ruler instead of the slave, which is the beginning of a beautiful new life.
Seventeen also surfaces in the story of Moses. After he was born, his parents saw that he was a beautiful child, at least, that is what it said in our Dutch translation. However, in Hebrew it says that they saw that he was ‘tov’, seventeen. The beginning of his life turned out to be bitter but after he had had the experience of the burning bush in the desert, he was ready to lead his people out of their slavery and to the Promised Land, or the beautiful new beginning.
There are more instances of the number 17 turning up in difficult circumstances but I do not really remember them. For me the most important is the principle and once I get that I can let go of the details.
Interesting information, Anny. I am familiar with the “17” references to Joseph and Moses. The rest gives me some food for thought. Thanks for providing the information. I appreciate it.
Paul, Anny,
The Tetragrammaton occurs 153 times in the Book of Genesis.
St. Augustine noted that 153 is the sum of the first 17 integers (i.e. 153 is the 17th triangular number), with 17 representing the combination of divine grace (the 7 gifts of the Spirit) and law (the Ten Commandments).
Writers claiming a major role for Mary Magdalene have noted that in Greek isopsephy her epithet “η Μαγδαληνή” bears the number 8 + 40 + 1 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 30 + 8 + 50 + 8 = 153, thus, it is suggested, revealing her importance.
Evagrius Ponticus referred to the catch of 153 fish, as well as to the mathematical properties of the number (153 = 100 + 28 + 25, with 100 a square number, 28 a triangular number and 25 a circular number) when describing his 153-chapter work on prayer.
Louis de Montfort, in his fifth method of saying the Rosary, connects the catch of 153 fish with the number of Hail Marys said (3 plus 15 sets of 10),[19] while St Paul’s School in London was founded in 1512 by John Colet to teach 153 poor men’s children, also in reference to the catch.[20]
Wow, Robert. This is some deep stuff. Have no idea what it all means, but unveiling the “codes” I am sure will provide some insights. I love this stuff. Anny and you seem to have a pretty good grasp of all this number stuff. I have a fascination with numbers, so I am a little surprised I have yet to uncover the meaning in all this. I’m sure it will come at some point. In the meantime, I am enjoying both of your writings.
Hello Robert,
You are always digging up so many details about everything! It is very interesting but I do not think that I could ever work with this kind of thing.
Could you enlighten me as to what integers, triangular and circular numbers and isopsephy are? The last word I could not find in my English-Dutch dictionary and my Greek-Dutch dictionary just told me that it is something like undecided or fifty-fifty or each side getting the same number of votes, which does not really help me very much in this context.
I thought I recognized 100 as a square number as it is 10 x 10, but in that case 25 should be a square number too as it is 5 x 5. So I am confused.
Hi Anny,
My apologies for copy and pasting too link much stuff right out of the Wikipedia article for 153.
In my own words, isopsephy is not a surgical removal of your isops, but the Greek form of Gematria. Here’s a link explaining it in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopsephy
It is Netherlands in North Carolina this week, ice and snow in record proportions.
I’ll try to ease up on the details.
Blessings and hugs,
Robert
Hi Paul,
Here is a Hebrew English parallel Old and New Testament that is free online. Check it out. http://www.sarshalom.us/resources/scripture/asv/bible.html
Thanks, Robert. I use the ISA (Interlinear Scripture Analyzer) at http://www.scripture4all.org for my Hebrew/English studies, but as I mentioned, I have never seen a Hebrew NT, so I am definitely going to bookmark the link you provided. Thanks so much for providing it.
Paul,
The ISA looks great. Thanks
Hi Paul,
Nice to read your comments here. On a different subject slightly, Paul, you mentioned a few weeks ago about working on a article “made in the image and likeness of God”. Is this article still progressing or have you shelved the idea for the moment, can I ask? I’m sure it’ll be another thundering great read.
Blessings
Raymond
Hi Raymond:
Indeed I wrote the article over a month ago (which I posted on my website) and provided a link to it on the same comment thread on which I posted the original comment (not sure what article that was now). In any event, here’s the link:
http://decodingscripture.com/2015/01/biblical-creation-created-image-god/
Thanks for your inquiry. I hope all is well with you these days. I’ve enjoyed reading your comments on the last few articles I read here on SOS.
P
Paul
Thank you so much for the link and nice comments. Will certainly be reading this article later, well done, in advance!
Raymond
LOL. Thanks, Raymond. Hope you still feel that way after reading the article 😉
P
Paul,
We both need to keep remembering who we really are and what we really do is not dependent on our conditioned anticipation of what others think.
Hi Anny
Thank you for this really fine article. What I like most is the “clarifying” dimension on the Hebraic language for beginners like myself to this format, and many others on SOS, I’m sure.
It’s wonderful to read biblical literature in a format different to our accustomed to version, so, in this regard, I’m certainly finding this new language learning stimulating, or, neuroplasticity-inducing! (a form of brain gymnastics).
When all is said and done, Anny, it comes down to an understanding and expression of the two Hebraic words expressed by you, and on which, I think, it’s appropriate to finish this comment… (Hope this is correct and proper.)
Echad,
Ahava,
Raymond
Hello Raymond,
Thanks your comment. I am glad you enjoyed it. I am still learning a lot from it myself by finding new connections all the time and see where it leads to. It really is a work in progress.
And yes, you are right, Echad and Ahava are really all that it is about. Onenes, unity and unconditional Love. So much for thirteen being an unlucky number!
So, love to you too,
Anny
Hi anny,
Great article. And what I think is most splendid is the part of your premise “…. we ourselves, as divine sparks of the fire that is God, put them there as signposts before we descended out of a world of higher awareness into this world ….” This way of putting it is a beautiful theosophic – gnostic confirmation that DIRECTION is essential to our soul’s journey in this world. Divine direction is the true hallmark of any thing which we would consider to be a revelatory sign or code. There are biblical passages, in both old and new testaments, showing us beyond doubt there will be direction given along the way, surrounding our signposts and pointing to other parts of the path to go, etc., only if we ask for it, giving it the amount of faith we need. And I think the meaning of direction has been somewhat overlooked by others in this topic, including myself.
I consider it of secondary importance and even fruitless in debating on whether or not a sign or a code system is truly valid or unfabricated. And that ‘s because our intuition is the touchstone and a more perfect way of figuring these things out. For scriptural support I turn to David in the Psalm 51,6: “Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.” I believe David, in this one deeply disturbing moment of his life, was referring to our God-given intuitive direction in “the hidden part” of ourselves. Our own codes and signs of re-cognition resting in our hearts, manufactured by ourselves which no one else can see exactly the way we are able to. If we can feel or realize our own God-Given signs coming from our own ‘hidden part’ of consciousness nothing else matters. The sign or code is meant personally for us. Keep up the good work anny. – Vern
I’d also like to add that our Kingdom Within abides in this “hidden part” of our being. Our Kingdom of Heaven that only we alone can see and find. We have all designed and made our own compass for ourselves. Thanks again anny. – Vern
Hi Vern,
This comment reached my mailbox at the same time I was writing mine to your first comment, I believe, so I could not reply to that yet.
I agree with this one as well although I have never really thought it before ‘where’ to place this Kingdom of Heaven within.
I like this idea of designing our own compass. So true.
Love,
Anny
Hello Vernon,
Thank you for your beautiful comment and for your valuable contribution. I completely agree that our intuition is the touchstone for everything and because it is personal and different for everyone, there are so many signposts in so many different fields to be found.
If only we are willing to look for them with the eyes of our heart.
It is an interesting journey, if not always easy.
Anny
Thanks Anny.
I also believe, which I should have included, that those particular signs (codes some like to call nowadays) which are related to our personal evolution&perfection of the soul are the real signs within us. They are the authentic values. I may get some disagreement here, but I know there are both authentic and unauthentic values in this life. The Authentic ones become a matter of individual reality for all of us. The bible is kind of like a road map to our true destination. And as spirit we all had a hand in creating it through the messengers of the Universe. – Be Blessed, keep trusting the eye in the heart, – Vern
Hi Anny, Vern,
Thank you both for these very interesting exchanges.
You say, Anny, “…although I have never really thought it before “where” to place this Kingdom of Heaven within”.
And, Vern, (commenting on your article), “…This way of putting it is a beautiful theosophic – Gnostic confirmation that DIRECTION is essential to our soul’s journey in this world. Divine direction is the true hallmark of any thing which we would consider to be a revelatory sign or code”.
Can I say, the “where”, as I’m sure intuitively you know, Anny, is placed “within raised consciousness”, which can be gained through any focal point such as maybe the Pineal gland, Heart Chakra, Solar Plexus, or any method which stills, calms the conscious mind: (“be still and know that I am God: Psalm 46 — “the Where” within — or, post state of “knowing”.
The “where” is somewhat like the hidden vapor in the Ocean: we can’t see it with the naked eye. But,when the Sun penetrates it (focused meditation) this causes the Vapor to rise. Rising Vapor here represents infusion of kingdom of God-Nature into our consciousness.
While many have their own recognized method of getting to, or placing, the “where”, for me, this is represented by the most potent of signs — /\ — denoting a converged point (of intellect in this instance). This /\ point, symbolizing the biblical smaller than the smallest, signifies an entry point or portal to kingdom of heaven consciousness. During /\ meditation, or point awareness, a magnetic upward draw or, transcendence of the consciousness, comes about, thus becoming experiential unconditional Love or, Presence — unbounded awareness at individual level. As mentioned in my last article, it’s really about “Emergence” of inner Christ into consciousness.
Can I say, on “direction”, Vern, for the benefit of those not yet familiar with the meditational process being referred to here.
When the conscious mind becomes regularly exposed to inner silence, cultured in mental stillness, a Self / Soul-referral or, “seek and ye shall find” channel, or level of consciousness, EMERGES: a Christ dynamic from which to progress and evolve spiritually. A level of transcendental awareness from where clarity of life-direction is never more than ‘gut instinct level’ away.
More often it’s when we come out of meditation that we begin to see / hear Authentic wisdom, understanding, begin to recognize obvious direction, signs, codes, colors, smells, words or intuitions etc which previously had little impact on our less spiritually developed consciousness: that is, ability to Heart-discern that which is omnipresent environmentally naturally.With regular stilling of the conscious mind, both “where” and “direction” collapse into Self-Realization — inner Christ awareness — when /\ becomes V (ictory).
Ahava, Anny, Vern
Raymond
Thank you Raymond,
This supplemental knowledge is very interesting and instructive and offers a unique perspective for me. The power of intellect “/\” indeed works in ways to reach the higher states of consciousness for many people, as it does for you. But the imagination, both my passive and creative powers work better for me in merging with God-consciousness, because I have learned how to culture it, and I consider myself to have a naturally lower level of comprehending power than some of the so-called super-intellects of today who do a lot of teaching for us about how to reach God. And many of them nullify the potential of the imagination simply by never saying anything about it. Perhaps I’m not reading or listening to the right ones. And perhaps I’m not fully aware of the dynamic connection that might exists between intellect and imagination. It’s always been much more easier for me to strengthen my intellect by exercising my imaginative faculty, the way I know it, as well as reading the works of others. BTW, I first discovered my imaginative powers (some call it ‘active imagination’) while reading The Pleasures of Imagination (1744) by Mark Akenside as a teenager. And I realized the benefits it has for me. I respect the intellectual approach, as you illustrate. However, I enjoy relating the awakening process with the creative faculty. And I offer no particular method except reading and concentrating on imagery and styles of verse and prose poetry. I love the hidden imagery and meaning in Matthew 13,33. And some of the other parables of Jesus.
The wisdom, understanding and enlightenment you offer here is no doubt exemplary and helpful to many, as well as myself. – Be Blessed, keep trusting the eye in your heart. – Vern
Hi Vern,
Thank you for this most insightful comment. Just to clarify, Vern, I wasn’t really advocating the intellectual approach, rather, of bringing the conscious mind in meditation to a level of onepointedness. This onepointedness, or convergence of thought, happens naturally when we close our eyes: the eyes converge upward to a point between the eyebrows. With practice, convergence of thought keeps the mind from drifting into compulsive thinking. Imagination indeed would most certainly benefit from such practice. Many crucifixion portraits depict this convergence with Jesus’ eyes pointed upward (into the brain).
I always enjoy reading your comments here on SOS, Vern, thank you.
Blessings
Raymond
Thanks again, Raymond. Your idea of onepointedness is very strong and useful, in both the physical and spiritual sense. It’s true that our physical eyes are always better focused and aligned when they work together. When people have a bad eye the healing process works by placing a patch over the good eye, silencing it in “stillness” so to speak, forcing the weak eye to improve. Thus learning to cultivate a quite mind is how we improve our inner strength. Making our “inner-star” shine for those who can see it. That’s probably why Jacob Boehme said “in my weakness is where I find my strength.”
And another image I see in those upward converging lines (besides the uncompleted pyramid lacking the all-seeing eye) are the praying hands. – Vern
Hi again Raymond,
I would like to include just one more comment. A worthy exception to those masters who teach us how to find God is Dr. Wayne W. Dyer. He has taught very much about the powers and usefulness on the imagination. And has been an inspiration to me for many years. I could never leave him out. And I’m sure there are others. – Vern
Hi Vern,
Thanks. Yes, I’ve read Dr. Wayne Dyer over the years, and indeed, you’re absolutely correct, he’s truly one of the great modern era pioneers on spiritual development. Can I say, Vern, while on the subject of books and imagination, this subject is covered a lot in my own book (page 170). Here’s the link. http://www.amazon.com/TRANSFORMING-YOUR-LIFE-How-That/dp/1477251545 .
I feel the biblical term: “…made in the image and likeness of God” that, the word “image” is actually referring to the faculty of creative imagination. Maybe Josh or Paul could bring additional clarification on this?
Raymond
Raymond:
This is a very interesting take on the “image” of God, and one that makes much sense to me, although I believe there is much more to it than that. The word “imagination” is an extension of the word “image,” and again that makes sense. However, the added word “likeness” in scripture also, I believe denotes Divine Love, as that is what God is. Moreover, scripture also asserts:
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2).
This scripture also provides more conclusive proof that we are not yet made in the image and likeness of God, for if we were, we would already “be like him.”
I see the “image” of God as being one of creating, and we indeed have to learn how to create. I completely agree this is primarily done through “heart thinking” (as a man “thinks” in his “heart,” so is he). But of more primary importance, at least in my view, is the importance of learning the essence of Divine Love. “He who loves is born of God.” God (the “spirit”) is love, and so to be born of God is to be born of love, and to be born of love is to be born of the spirit. “Unless one is born of … the spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.”
In any event, I see this “…made in the image and likeness of God” to be the entire purpose of our (and WE are the Creation) existence. In essence, we are “formed” to be “created in God’s image and likeness.”
That’s my two “pesos” (graduated over two “cents,” courtesy of Anny). 🙂
Vern,
FYI, I heard Wayne Dyer speak on the Tao. He isolated himself on an Island after going through some heavy stuff and rediscovered the value of silence. Here’s the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vymEm-9vOSA
Hello Raymond and Vern,
Thanks for both your comments. I recognize the experience, but not the way you describe it, Raymond. I think it is a very personal experience and there are different ways to it as we are different people.
Personally I can do nothing with breathing techniques, purely because I can hardly breathe at all. Which is one of the reasons I have already been sitting behind my computer since 4.30 this morning, an hour ago. But somehow, naturally, it has taken another way with me to get to the same results.
I think that is also the reason that your approach it different again, Vernon. Your approach is different but it works for you and that is what counts. I think a British expression is: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have the feeling that both your puddings are wonderful and so is mine.
Love,
Anny
Thanks, Anny. Yes, your’re absolutely correct, that, we each pursue our own natural path to enlightenment, which is similar to what Vern has just expressed so well. Yes, 4.30am is a very early start at the computer. It reminds me of when writing my book and those many early frosty mornings when I’d wake up and have to type out the new incoming information, otherwise I’d forget it. Maybe, Anny, as Josh mentioned, there’s a book in you waiting to be explored in mind and keyed in to your computer.
Gosh, I’d love a slice of that pudding now, with a cupa tea!!!
Love
Raymond
Now that you mention it, Raymond, I would as well. Why don’t we. I am going to make some tea to start with. Cooking tea, the Germans call it!
As far as the book is concerned, it will have to wait. A lot of other things are waiting for my attention as well in real life, including my one-year-old grandson who loves to give his own contribution to my work when he is sitting on my lap when I am sitting behind the computer. We often babysit him. Next month there will be even two of them, conversing in Vietnamese in as far as they are able to speak. I am looking forward to it but with some trepidation.
Anny, thanks. And how familiar are you with the works of William Blake? – Vern
Hello Vernon,
To be honest, I have often heard and read about William Blake in all sorts of contexts. As he is a well-know figure he also figures in novels. And of course I have read bits and pieces of what he wrote over the years, quoted by others in some context or other, but never a whole book that was written by him. And all this has been quite some time ago as well. I do know that he was someone with deeper insights but I do not remember really what they were.
Anny
Yes! Beautiful. God imagined us into creation. Conceived and gave birth to us out of His mind, or heart. But how many of us really see it that way. That reinforces the scriptural truths that we have the mind of Christ, and have the power (creative power) to become the Sons of god. His creative powers transferred over to us. I’ll send in for your book sooner or later. I too have some literary blessings in store for me before I pass. – Vern
P.S. I ran out of my follow-up reply buttons. I hope you find this down here Raymond.
Good morning Anny & Raymond,
I received an intuitive whim and wanted to elate it for a bottom line: it could have went without saying but we’ve learned from each other that the Kingdom isn’t only a matter of ‘where’ but is a process, striving toward the Kingship which may make us the ruler. Proverb 16,32 sums it up quite well “He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit than he who takes a city.” It’s amazing how spiritual topics can lead us so far away from the initial insights. But nothing is far fetched. It’s all worth the royal carriage. I think that’s just one of the reasons why William Blake wrote “The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.” – Vern
Hi Paul
Thank you so much for this enlightening comment. Can I say, I’ve read your brilliant article on your blog site “..made in the image and likeness.. and must say, you dealt with it most comprehensively and convincingly, and with great authority of understanding. Well done, again!
Yes, there’s a societal perception in quarters that “…made in the image and likeness..” that we’re the finished product, entitled to sit back and do nothing about developing our spiritual aspect of the Creation – You / soul / spirit. That, we’ve no further responsibility to the Creation other than to plunder and desecrate our God-given potential merely for self gain through greed in all areas.
My view on “image “ and “likeness” is similar, (different interpretive words, maybe) in that, consequent of knowing “born again” of Love, of Spirit, truly is man fulfilling the Will of God. That is, through His bestowed Creative ability — usually through a particular talent-seed innately gifted to each soul — “firstborn” or divine nature comes into awareness. In soul evolution terms we must move beyond the labor ward of ignorance into birthing “firstborn” status.
This bestowed talent — a seemingly ordinary skill or aptitude, etc — when developed and expressed spiritually, helps mature not only our own spiritual growth but countless others on their spiritual journey, similarly as we’ve been helped or influenced by other Love-centered souls. We’re reminded in scripture of the servant who buried his talent, his spiritual power or, Creative potential. I believe this is what Genesis 1:1 is also proclaiming: “in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”, in other words, through inner present moment, or transcendental awareness, do we find “in the beginning” or “firstborn” nature (divine or heavenly awareness becoming birthed into consciousness) “God created the heavens” (made heavenly or higher states of consciousness accessible and experiential through Christ within) “and the earth”, (manifestations of spiritual wealth in our life, body and affairs).
Many to this day, through indifference and ignorance, sadly, still allow Herod to slay their “firstborn” — Christ nature — in favor of lower-self power fueled by greed and toxic mental contaminants.
Can I share my own “firstborn” story.
At primary school I was always attracted to writing essays. But, on leaving at age fourteen years, I later got caught up in actively living my lower nature conditioning, thus my talent seed withered on the rocks of disinterestedness, chocked by “the world” of illusion. But, thankfully, sixteen years later, after enduring some rough patches, I said: enough is enough, and started to fight back (against negative Herod and his soul corruption-intent army). I started attending healing therapy classes, going on consciousness development seminars which led to my practicing regular daily meditation. I remember the night my “firstborn” became an overwhelming, yelping experiential realization. A the time, I was sitting in my basic-bedsit in Dublin, yet, was feeling absolutely blissful beyond words. That cold winter’s evening, after years of talent burying, I was spirit-led to putting pen to paper and express this “newborn nature”. As I sat in my tattered armchair beside a warm radiator, these are the exact soul words which emerged.
~Spirit of Love ~
The Spirit moves within me now, Expression, seeking life. God ~ I ask to be the heart to give this loving truth away. Be a channel for Your spirit, giving life to smiles and hugs, laughter, goodwill acceptance and forgiveness; beauty, love creates. God ~ I am thankful for this unending source of love within.
The Spirit moves within me now, Wisdom, seeking birth. God ~ I feel Your message in my heart to bring Your light to those still lost. Seek and praise a cry-out soul, share this love with those in need. See love in all, treat all as love, God ~ let this awareness felt within grow, to do Thy perfect will.
The Spirit moves within me now, Understanding, seeking words, God ~ let thy words expressed through me, unite and heal divided minds, for loving hearts to multiply. Speaking truth with trust and cleansed with love, God ~ let my spirit soar to city, town and nation, to free Your gift in all mankind.
This Poem, along with 21 others, forms part of my first published book (112 page) titled: The Absolute Secret — Beyond the suffering, the Key to inner Peace (Janus 2009). Links:
.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+absolute+secret+by+raymond+phelan
The onset of scripture’s “firstborn” nature — Divine love — indeed moves us within. This fulfills, I feel, “…made in the image and likeness.., and, Genesis 1:1: potential from son of man to Son of God by way of accessing higher states of Divine consciousness, of, knowing Full Humanity through ”Christ within” and its further expression into our daily life and environment thereby benefit others, the planet and the greater universe.
Hope this was not too rambling, Paul, but, I did say I love essays!
Blessings
Raymond:
Thanks for the comment on my article. I find it absolutely incredible that the experts have been confused for many centuries on the Genesis 1 & 2 issue. When you understand the “codes” in the Bible, it really becomes crystal clear.
Your story is indeed a fascinating one, and is a shining example of how listening to that still, small voice within can work wonders for us.
I believe this is the path we all must take if we truly want to experience the “Kingdom of God,” which the Bible tells us is within us.
As I am sure you are aware, the mission I have chosen for myself (although I am going on a hiatus for the foreseeable future) is to help people to see the importance of going within to seek God. As scripture says, is there anyone that understands, is there anyone that seeks God? Of course the answer to this question is that most people will not seek God because most people believe they have already found God.
We all start out in the flesh, and so fleshly labor and activity are normal. You did not go astray in your earlier years. You just had not awakened yet. Then you got to a point, as I did, where things began to change on the inside, and you followed those inner promptings. Most will not do that, preferring rather to go to other men (adultery) to ask about the issues of life. This going-within is the Apostle Paul within you seeking its expression (1 Cor. 3:5). This is the Paul within you that suddenly hears the voice of God on its own, without any introduction by man (Acts 9:3-7). This is the Paul within you that suddenly sees the light and hears the voice. It is also the Apostle Peter within you that is blessed because “flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my father in heaven.”
“ALGAE” (Anger, Lust, Greed, Attachment and Ego) is merely the result of being “human,” and as such is not bad in itself. It’s just a function of our “deep sleep” condition. There is nothing wrong, per se, with that. It is merely the current I AM condition, which changes upon our awakening. Thus, everyone and everything is good where it is, and I have come to the current conclusion, contrary to my earlier conclusion, that all is well with everyone, and that there is no room for me to condemn, bite and devour my brothers and sisters who may not have yet arrived, or who don’t understand. There was a point in time when I didn’t either. In fact, I still do not, if that makes any sense.
It as become fun for me to simply observe life and how it unfolds for us. Of course, terrorism and inhumane acts toward one another are not fun to observe, but all of our experiences constitute a very necessary part of our spiritual growth and development.
Thank God we cannot REALLY do any harm to another. I believe all of this thing we call human life is simply a play, and that this play is only real in our eyes because we are in the wilderness/desert and are dying of thirst, and thus we see things that aren’t there. Only a very few in any given point in time find the gateway to life.
Thanks again for your comment Raymond. It is very enlightening.
Thank you much, Robert, for the link on Dr. Dyer. It was re-refreshing. Here is a link for you. However, you may be ahead of me here, if you’ve read it already. – Vern http://www.berdyaev.com/berdiaev/berd_lib/1927_321.html
Vern.
Thanks for the link. I think I am going to honestly say this article from 1927 is too densely written for me to read. I get lost in the long paragraphs and tangled ideas, and find it a strain to figure out the point. I have an incompatibility with the antiquated style.
I accept suffering as an intentional paradox that can expand consciousness in those who have learned the trick of excelling from it. Having too narrow a concept of God as the fundamentalists do leads to all sorts of dead end explanations about suffering. I see that as a major failing in traditional Christianity, and can force a person to either blindly submit to injustice because God knows what’s best, or to screw God who should have known better. It never invites us to participate in the cultivation of divinity within us and exert it in all circumstances. The bible could be used to present it that way. I think that is the core of Jesus’s teachings and example. But I either did not learn that in church or just did not get it when I was there. I had to find it first by exploring how other religions deal with suffering, and once I got it, it became a lot clearer that the same message could also be seen in the bible.
I thought Berdyaev’s ideas on theodicy might interest you. This article is still acknowledged today in many circles of the western esoteric paths for those seeking deeper biblical input into theodicy and atheism. I presented it mainly for its scriptural relevancy.
A more clarifying view of his works and mystical ideas, many of which can be found to have scriptural foundation, is in the book “Freedom And The Spirit.” I can side with you to a degree on the current-day mind-set of the Fundamentalist toward suffering. But he uses the meaning of suffering here as a mere example which is only a constituent proposition in the mode of the underlying message: why and how to justify the ways of God toward man. Milton’s Paradise Lost is our culture’s creative aspect for it. But Berdyaev’s is the philosophical approach.
Berdyaev has been read by many Catholics in the 20th Cen. mainly because of his anti-Thomistic bend. And by a grander scale for his ideas in traditional (not the modern Blavatsky incarnation) Christian theosophy. Thanks for the insights Robert. BTW, for your recent post, all I can is WOW. Very insightful and a unique perspective for me. You’ve uncovered a lot I haven’t gotten to yet.
Vern,
Thanks for explaining the importance of Berdyehaev’s work. Maybe later this weekend I will sit down with the article and wade through it. I can look up his biography on Wikipedia to get a better idea of where he is coming from.
I am glad you appreciate my first article in the series “Understanding the Messianic Prophecies”. I will look forward to enjoying your comments to those posts, as will others.
Robert, this will give you a nice head start.
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Sui-Generis/Berdyaev/essays/
– Vern
Vern,
These are interesting. I can’t read them all of course. But I skimmed part of one so far and looked him up in Wikipedia. I don’t feel so bad now at not being able to understand him very easily. He is in the tradition of deep thinking Russian intellectuals who were eventually kicked out of Russia with others like him, went to Germany until all the war troubles started there, and made a final move to France where he wrote his best works. By the time you get to the English translation it is tough going. He was motivated to seek truth by finding contradictions in others views, sometimes in his own views. He remained an Eastern Orthodox Christian and at the same time believed in universal salvation, so he has one foot in both worlds like us.
If you really enjoy the imaginary ideas and visions handed down to us by the traditional Christian Theosophers and mystics (including the 19th century proponents of the New Thought movement) you’ll get hooked on the mind of Berdyaev.
Contradictions are a natural result of the mind and spirit trying to synthesize. They don’t necessarily mean the author is blind-spotted or ignorant. Berdyaev showed wisdom in this. What he liked was exercising Hegel’s famous concept of Thesis, anti-thesis – synthesis solution. He liked bringing out truth in people as well as being a critical thinker. Looking forward to your other posts, Robert. Keep up the good work. – Vern
Vern,
Well I waded through Berdyaiv and what I am able to grasp from him is that the problem we have with God allowing suffering comes from being taught to relate to God as a political, totalitarian king; and then rationalizing that if he has the control over everything like a totalitarian king then he is being cruel in refusing to stop suffering. Berdyaiv talks about this rationalistic approach also expecting us to bow to the mystery of God and not to reason why, just accept and trust although we do not understand. Another bad approach is to accept that God must allow suffering to have free choice, for the better good. This is a kind of sterile, robot approach to God being a detached ruler. The better approach that Berdyaiv offers is to realize God is not a totalitarian king and life is not set up like that. He asserts that God is a part us and thus apart of our drama, and walks in our world through us reconciling us through the God-Man connection of Christ as we experience this drama. It is out of the drama that all the important issues come forth – love, sacrifice, how we react to triumph and tragedy. Its about our relationship to him and he to us, that we should experience and grow through that closeness, not simply appreciate a God who does good things for us from a distance. The God-Man is the key. We are baptized into his death and resurrection as well as God being baptized into ours.
People like Berdyaiv did good things for others and were socially and politically active, which often brought them into conflict with oppressive human authorities.
I had to jump around and read about Karl Barth, who was also in the category of a Christian Existentialist along with Kierkegaard. They all agree we need to be free to discover spiritual truth individually for it to be meaningful and effective, not just accept a set of ideas and expectations thrown at us. Karl Barth was one of the few influential Christians in Germany who stood up to Hitler and the Nazi Party before he was forced to escape to Switzerland. The proof is in the pudding. He was spirituality was free enough to develop an independent ethical code that went against the grain of the corrupt community code of the Nazi’s and the other churches that followed them. This is really a good argument for freedom of the individual to explore spirituality on very personal terms, because these individuals are more likely to turn out right.
I’m glad you took the time to set yourself up as an evaluator of his thinking, the way you see him. Another favorite of mine is Vladamir Soloviev. Maybe someday we’ll have a little discussion on him too. – Vern
Whooops, that’s Vladimir Solovyov, just another grand thinker and writer of the Russian magi. – Vern
Berdyaev
me
To
Robert Engelbach
Mar 5 at 1:11 PM
Robert, I thought it would be better to continue this issue in our emails. It’s best to keep it away from the readers from now on being between you and me only.
I respect your recent reply. And I assume you expect one from me, since it was me who instigated it. I like using this article as a study guide for inter-disciplinary expansion in philosophy, which has served as a model as such for students of philosophy. A thorough grounding in theodicy, such as the one Berdyaev offers here is essential, I think, to understanding important topics like spiritual warfare. Although I know that there are less complicated approaches which we can glean on from other writers, this one is exceptional because of Berdyaev’s spiritual understanding of freedom.
I’m not addressing this in the form of refutation or debate. But as a supplement.
So many think God is being cruel in refusing to stop suffering not only because they’re taught he has the all-inclusive powers to prevent it as an imperial king but because they don’t realize that God himself suffers ALONG WITH mankind, as he states, with the ills, inperfections and vices man brings on himself. It’s hard for any one to accept God as a mystery, who have been taught it should be God’s duty to revolutionize against evil. Many misconceptions about freedom are based on a “false human idea of God,” – par.11. God can not destroy evil because freedom is the source of both good and evil. The realization that God suffers, by himself, with the world is pivotal to the crux in this article and throws light on the meaning of sacrifice. Understanding the God-man as our example of the sacrificial savior is incomplete without seeing that (in par. 13) “deification is the perfective transfiguration of man within God, his penultimate birth within God.” As he goes on to state…. “The mystery is translatable only in the language of sacrificial love.” Crucial to understanding the God-man in relation to the mystery of freedom.
This little addition here I think polishes over what you have stated. Feel free to re-address me, Robert. Your correspondent, – Vern
Hello Vernon,
I have just been browsing through the comments that do not really have a relation to the article but even though I do not understand everything as I did not study all this material (nor do I intend to), I found it interesting. Especially the last paragraph in which you describe Berdyaev’s vision which I almost totally share, though I never even heard of the man before.
I just have one question; you (or he) write that God suffers along with mankind but is that really the case? I would rather state it this way: God EXPERIENCES everything that all of creation (not only mankind) experiences but suffering is caused by a state of resistance to what is. One of the things we are learning right now is that we can stop suffering by giving up this resistance and accepting that is what is. And go from there. I just recently heard Eckhard Tolle put it this way: ” suffering is necessary until we discover it is not.”
God AS mankind probably does suffer but God as a higher consciousness above mankind, which seems to be implied here, might experience everything that we experience (and suffer from) probably without resistance and thus without suffering.
What do you think?
Love,
Anny
Thanks Anny. It’s always useful and interesting discovering the varieties of opinion surrounding our love of wisdom. What is meant by “God suffers along with mankind” is the collective meaning of humanity at large, in the whole drama of the world, not one on one individually. What Berdyaev states somewhere among those long paragraphs is: “God shares in the tragedy of the world.” Humanity’s collective suffering is in better focus for us when we see it in the context of the experience of freedom, which he describes in both the human and spiritual experience. One familiar with this article wouldn’t need this clarification. Berdyaev means a higher, or different kind of suffering in God’s part than a purely human experience of it.
But I think he (God) also makes it a necessity to identify with our individual feelings, and suffering when we get his attention. Whatever emanation of God this may be I don’t know.
I agree that “…. suffering is caused by a state of resistance to what is,” especially if you’re referring to emotional or mental pain. But I wouldn’t know how to line that up with excruciating physical pain. And yes giving up resistance and accepting is a very important discipline all of us must learn. I remember reading Eckhart Tolle’s “Power of Now” and what really grabbed me in was his wisdom on “surrendering.” Our decline of mental and emotional suffering and strength of resistance has much to do with surrendering to what is. Tolle’s statement “suffering is necessary until we discover it is not,” sounds like a very conditional proposition requiring a very specific response. Emotional, mental, physical? I would have to hear or read that within greater surrounding context. But it sounds a lot like one of Mary Baker Eddy’s Christian Science tenets, and I would still trust it intuitively without needing to reason it.
In your bottom paragraph, I’m not so sure about the word “resistance,” since what Berdyaev teaches us is that God is beyond good and evil, there is a higher value. Resistance seems more of a human concept, or experience. And therefore in a since, God is beyond suffering, in His ultimate reality. None of us is on top of reality enough to know what pure absolute consciousness is. About the best I can say is that the ineffable Father is love. Because that is the true Father of Christianity and the height of Christ consciousness. Hope this satisfies you.
Have a beautiful Spring, when it comes. Love & Light, – Vern
Anny – postscript: Go to paragraph 7 in “A Consideration Concerning Theodicy” and you will read: “God himself shares in the tragedy of the world, in the sufferings of the world, and takes upon Himself the sufferings of mankind.” – Vern
Hello Vernon,
You write: “What is meant by “God suffers along with mankind” is the collective meaning of humanity at large, in the whole drama of the world, not one on one individually.” I got that much and even extended it to the rest of creation as well. I think that in that sense God experiences everything that the animal kingdom and the other kingdoms experience as well, as they all have consciousness on whatever level.
And then you say: “Berdyaev means a higher, or different kind of suffering in God’s part than a purely human experience of it.” My question is: Is there a higher kind of suffering, or is this an experience that needs another name? I agree with you that it is not exactly clear about which level of manifestation of God we are talking here.
In your last paragraph you write: “In your bottom paragraph, I’m not so sure about the word “resistance,” since what Berdyaev teaches us is that God is beyond good and evil, there is a higher value. Resistance seems more of a human concept, or experience. And therefore in a since, God is beyond suffering, in His ultimate reality.”
Is not that exactly what I am trying to say too? The resistance refers to man, not to God. It is just because God is beyond resistance, that I posed the question that it might be better to call this an experience than suffering in that case. We will never be able to describe what any experience whatsoever might mean to God, when interpreted as the highest level of consciousness.
As we are all parts of God however, with our focus in a much lower level of consciousness, God AS us does of course suffer along with everyone else.
I think our differences in view are more a matter of semantics than anything else, don’t you?
I very much appreciate what little I read from Berdyaev though.
Love,
Anny
Anny, I answered your question. It just wasn’t the EXACT answer you expected. But, in your second reply you re-stated the question in different words “…. is this an experience that needs another name.” Here’s where I draw the line. In our hearts we understand each other. Your friend, – Vern
Hi Vernon,
You also asked for a greater surrounding context of EckhardTolle’s statement and I forgot to give that to you. I did phrase it in my own words but you had better listen to it yourself as I got this particular statement from a You Tube video. Underneath is the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDd-_Mdeksc
Love,
Anny
Hello again Anny.
I wanted to give you a more complete reply earlier but I had to cut it and fly off to work. Yes, I stated: “In your bottom paragraph, I’m not so sure about the word “resistance,” since what Berdyaev teaches us is that God is beyond good and evil, there is a higher value. Resistance seems more of a human concept, or experience. And therefore in a sense, God is beyond suffering, in His ultimate reality.” Of course, that is what you were saying. I’m not opposing you here. I was hoping you could read that as confirmation. Because I too am not exactly sure what level of God that Berdyaev is referring to here. But I know it’s above the Demiurge, as he himself implies. And I didn’t realize your meaning of “resistance” was purely human referring to man only, as you stated after the fact in your second reply. Actually, resistance IS a spiritual word for humans because of the examples of Jesus as the archetypal God-Man. I’m sure it has experiential meaning as high as God is, according to God’s law of correspondences.
Your second question in your second reply: “Is there a higher kind of suffering” …. Of course, there must be, in the bosom of God. “…. or is this an experience that needs another name?” Now that in itself is an ultimate question! Honestly, I have to say I am not personally close enough to the higher God, as a friend, to know the answer to this. A very practical mystic could probably help you here. To know ABOUT God we have to KNOW God. I don’t know. And yet I don’t think this question, or the answer to it would have much bearing on the veracity of Berdyaev’s meaning of suffering in his theodicy. I wish you would have posed this same question earlier along with your first question.
Well, I think maybe in a few instances our differences are a matter of semantics. But we’re also different in the ways we conceive each other. We’ve just shared the proof of our pudding together. Yes, words throw us off when dealing with spiritual matters such as this. Moreover, as a philosophical analogy I have mistaken the map for the actual territory. I mean what I pointed out to Robert was only a minute piece of the map of which Berdyaev walked in his thesis. If I presented to Robert a much larger form of Berdyaev’s theodicy I would have presented the real contextual territory that he walked, a whole-cloth viewpoint so to speak. But I didn’t. They were only reference points. What you gave back to me was merely a smaller part of that map. Like you said, you have never read this from Berdyaev. Citing small passages, out of touch with the overall view is like showing a photo or a reflection of the sun. We never sense the real energy rays of the sun coming from a mere photo or reflection. Just the picture. I’m not saying it’s false or incorrect. Just admitting that it isn’t 100% accurate. I didn’t present the actual territory of Berdyaev.
I will listen to Tolle’s lecture when I have more time. But I can assure you that if he isn’t identifying with the meaning of suffering in the same philosophical explanative context of Berdyaev’s theodicy I don’t see what good it can do. But I will listen to it and see if theodicy is Tolle’s objective. Even if it isn’t I still think I’ll gain from it. Thanks for sending it. And I hope this attachment fills the bill. Your friend – Vern
Anny, I could kick myself in the butt. 4th paragraph down: that should be “NOT a whole cloth view point.” LOL. I’m getting tired. Night.
Hello Vernon,
Thank you for your reply. Of course we will never think totally the same about all this but why should we? It was not my intention to understand completely what Berdyaev means to say but just thought about the little you shared which was very interesting.
I believe that everyone should find his or her own way in all this themselves without considering anyone as an absolute authority. How could anyone ever be? I do not think that I will ever have a fixed view on this (or anything whatever for that matter) as I keep evolving and so does everyone else. We should all learn from each other when possible but never fight about who is right.
The video is not a lecture but sort of a meditative description of a chapter of one of his books with beautiful scenes of nature in Germany to look at. There are more of them and they are all about a quarter of an hour long.
Love,
Anny
Anny,
I’m going to search more of Berdyaev’s work to see where, or if he shows what higher Divine spirit is beyond suffering, and how he terms it. I believe the highest reality is because it is said to be an “impersonal” God.
I’ll let you know how I feel about Eckhart’s meditative speech some time during the week end. I’m sure I’ll enjoy it.
Love & Light – Vern
Anny I listened to “Suffering And The End Of Suffering.” And I am very impressed with this teaching. And especially near the end about “….suffering consciously….” “offering up our suffering to God.” That’s a subtle way of taming the ego. And then quoting part of The Lord’s Prayer – “not my will but thy will be done.” That’s a beautiful way of recognizing that God’s ways toward man ARE justified as long as we surrender our will to his. Learning to “resist not evil,” is a vital discipline to overcoming and transcending our polarities. A very tall order, of course, but very necessary. There’s a lot of compatibility which can go hand in hand with followers of Berdyaev and Tolle.
Tolle can be dubbed like the Gnostic’s and contemplative mystics were “a practical and empirical technician of the psyche and spirit,” whether or not he calls himself either wouldn’t matter. He’s more than just a counseling psychologist. We’re lucky to have a teacher like him.
Another way of looking at suffering, and joy for that matter, is that the necessity for both are carried over with us in our reincarnational transitions with the karmic rules of living that we engraft inside of our souls. It’s a mystery. And God is a mystery to us all. Surrendering to life is the key. I’m glad you gave me this link, Anny. – Love & Light, Vern