I have visited the topic of reincarnation on this blog a few times before. I thought it would be a good time to revisit the topic because it’s so important to realize it’s relevance if you truly wish to ever understand the bigger picture of most ancient scriptures, especially the Bible. Hopefully it will stimulate some good discussion in the comment section.
This post will be a little different. Instead of talking about all the scriptures that support reincarnation, we are going to focus on two from Job and Ecclesiastics. Furthermore, I’ll be comparing and contrasting Matt Slick’s argument from the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. He is the president and founder of the organization. In his post, he argues why Job 1:21 and Eccl 5:15 cannot support reincarnation. I am going to counter his argument to show you why his reasoning is incorrect. It is not my intention to be negative against Matt Slick. I don’t know him and he might be a brilliant man, but I believe he lacks the proper esoteric and allegorical understanding of scripture to correctly address the subject, especially when we consider the bigger picture. With that being said, let’s begin by taking a look Job:
“And he said, Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.” (Job 1:21).
Let’s focus on Mr. Matt Slick’s beginning argument first. He states:
“Job says that when he died he would return to his mother’s womb, but this cannot be reincarnation for two reasons. First of all, the Bible teaches us that “it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,” (Heb. 9:27). This soundly refutes reincarnation. Therefore, Job. 1:21 cannot be referring to reincarnation. Second, if we take Job. 1:21 literally, then does it mean that Job will be reincarnated into his own mother’s womb? If so, we have a problem.”
Mr. Slick begins by stating that Heb. 9:27 “soundly refutes reincarnation.” This is silly, and clearly shows that Mr. Slick doesn’t correctly understand the concept of reincarnation. In the idea of reincarnation, each incarnate being still dies once. When the person incarnates again, they are not the same person. They are an accumulation of all their past life experiences and incarnate with a new personality and ego. Think about Elijah and John the Baptist. Jesus told his disciples in Matthew 11:14, “And if you are willing to accept it, he [John the Baptist] is the Elijah who was to come.” Critics argue that John the Baptist only came in the spirit of Elijah. But again, this is consistent with reincarnation. The spiritual ego is permanent and develops through each life, but the lower ego and personality is dissipated at death and is born anew in the next incarnate life. Clearly John the Baptist and Elijah were not meant to be the same person, but it can be said that they were the same spiritual ego. Of course it goes deeper than this because of the allegorical nature of these Biblical characters, but that’s another topic for another time. The point is, Mr. Slick incorrectly assumes that Heb. 9:27 automatically refutes reincarnation. It does not.
Now to his second point. Matt states that if we take this scripture literally, it means Job would be reincarnating back into his own mother’s womb. As you’ll see in another one of his quotes, he goes on to tell us that it is not literal. Let’s take a look at Ecclesiastics 11:5:
“As he came naked from his mother’s womb, so will he return as he came. He will take nothing from the fruit of his labor that he can carry in his hand.”
Let’s see what Matt Slick states about this scripture:
“Likewise with Ecclesiastes 5:15. The context is dealing with evil under the sun and not having a way to support children due to bad investments. This is when the writer says, “As he had come naked from his mother’s womb, so will he return as he came. He will take nothing from the fruit of his labor that he can carry in his hand.” The writer is not speaking about reincarnation, but about coming into the world with nothing and returning to the earth with nothing.”
After that point, Matt will tell us that the “earth” is symbolic of the womb, and he uses what God tells Adam as his support. He further states:
“If we begin with Adam, we see that he was literally taken from the earth. God said to Adam after Adam’s fall, “By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, because from it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return,” (Gen. 3:19). From the very beginning of creation, by the words of God Himself, the idea that the earth is the place where Adam came from is taught. This could naturally be considered a type of womb. It follows then, that when we look at Job, we can see that the “mother’s womb” that is spoken of is in reference to the earth.”
This finishes Matt Slick’s argument. He wants us to believe that Job 1:21 is metaphorical. He believes that the womb Job shall return to is the womb of the earth instead of incarnating again.
Matt is partially correct here, but what he probably doesn’t realize is that all scripture is metaphorical in nature. The womb is symbolic of the “earth” or “matter.” However, Matt Slick misses all the other metaphorical references to scripture which point to the fact that the womb, earth, and world are symbolic for matter, or life on the physical plane, i.e., the “flesh.”
Those who do not work out all of their karma in life must return to the flesh, or material world to have another round.
Since Matt Slick considers the word “womb” symbolic, let’s also look at the word “mother” used in the same passage. Mother is symbolic of the feminine or receptive aspect of matter for spirit to incarnate. One passage of the Clementine Homilies (attributed by some to Pope Clementine) states:
“For, since the present world is female, as a mother bringing forth the souls of her children, but the world to come is male, as a father receiving his children (from their mother), therefore in the world there come a succession of prophets, as being sons of the world to come, and having knowledge of men.”
Whoever truly wrote the Clementine Homilies understood that the mother’s womb is symbolic of the incarnating spirit (male) descending into the earth or matter (female mother) to bring about the eventual second Adam.
The truth is that Job 1:21 cannot be said to definitively support or deny reincarnation, but rather suggests it. It is simply a symbolic reference for man returning to the earth (matter, physical life, the womb) after death. But the earth is the womb for the incarnate spirit to further develop the immortal or spiritual ego until all karma is worked out and a person does not have to return to physical life.
Mark Mason, in his work, In Search of a Loving God, further supports this idea when he states in chapter 16:
“The way in which people cease incarnating on earth once they have finally outgrown earthly things is well described in this passage from Hebrews:
All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. IF THEY HAD BEEN THINKING OF THE COUNTRY THEY HAD LEFT, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD OPPORTUNITY TO RETURN. Instead they were longing for a better country — a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. (Heb. 11:13–16)
The sentence I have emphasized with capitals clearly indicates that people who die still hankering after the things of earth, will be given the opportunity to return to it. This is precisely what reincarnation is all about. This passage also says that people who consider themselves “aliens and strangers on earth” will have a city prepared for them by God.”
Why Reincarnation Makes Sense
One of the things we must consider when speaking of reincarnation is that it is the only reasonable possibility for the development of the soul. In traditional mainstream Christian thought, a person has one lifetime to get it right and become saved. At least, that is how the Bible is interpreted by some. But let’s use a little common sense and logical thought, which is what God gives us, right?
If we only have one life to live to determine eternal destiny, to what end would that really serve? If this point of view is true, then why wouldn’t the next life, whether in heaven (wherever that may be?), or somewhere else, afford further opportunity for mistakes, growth, and development? Here in this life there are many people who choose to serve Christ and then, through some experience in life, change their minds and decide that the traditional message they heard is no longer true. Why wouldn’t this same opportunity exist in heaven? Didn’t supposedly Satan himself, who was second only to God, do this? What was his reasoning for changing? The Bible mentions pride as one. But isn’t it possible for a Christian who is supposedly born again and saved to exhibit pride? It happens all the time. What would stop that in heaven? Some think the glory of God’s presence will be so great that we would automatically want to be completely in awe and obedient. But then this would mean that God automatically MAKES us into something we haven’t developed for ourselves. What would be the real reason for God putting us on earth in the first place? Just for us to realize we are sinners? What a strange thing to do to us.
The truth is no one is eternally secure from returning to the earth until all Karma is worked out and the lower ego is sacrificed and united in the heavenly marriage of the higher, or spiritual ego. This is the true renewing of the mind that Paul speaks of. God doesn’t make us do this. We learn it through the trials of earthly existence as the Bible clearly teaches, and I don’t think it is possible to learn ALL of the things necessary in one lifetime. If so, every born again Christian would be a saint. And that’s silly.
Does the Bible really teach reincarnation?
A good question. I wouldn’t say that it explicitly teaches it. Rather, it is strongly implied. During the time of early Christianity, reincarnation was held as doctrine. It didn’t need to be taught because it was accepted as a truth that was evident, much for the same reasons I have discussed above. Trying to explain it would be like trying to explain why we need to eat or breathe in order to continue to live. That’s why in the scriptures it can seem a little ambiguous. But when we look at the bigger picture, and understand the symbolic nature of the scripture, it’s not so ambiguous after all.
Conclusion
Mr. Slick is trying to take Job 1:21 and state definitively that it cannot support reincarnation. But as you have seen, he is coming from a limited mindset of doctrine formulated by mainstream Christianity. I don’t blame him because I once held his views. But does Mr. Slick understand that reincarnation was declared heresy in the 6th century by the emperor Justinian in 553 A.D. by direct influence? He stacked the vote of Eastern Bishops against the West in an ecumenical council. The Western church fathers believed in the pre-existence of the soul while the Eastern ones, controlled by Justinian, did not.
We must be careful before determining that a concept such as reincarnation cannot be included in the Bible. It is clearly suggested through many Old and New Testament books, and would take volumes to address them all properly. But for now, perhaps Job 1:21 and the other points we have made today make a little more sense to you. I cannot prove to you in isolation that it supports reincarnation, but when we consider it with ALL of scripture I believe we can say that goes right along with the concept quite nicely.
In case you are interested, you can find Matt Slick’s original article at:
https://carm.org/bible-difficulties/job-song-solomon/do-job-121-and-ecc-515-teach-reincarnation
Blessings!
I studied the samsara wheel from Buddhism, and the 6 realm is the human realm… Its a realm where we develop the balance centered in god consciousness. I agree that there is suffering in the human realm as we see… Suffering that creates a thirst as the woman at the well Jesus spoke to. A desire that causes to chase illusions developing wrong views(carnal mind) impeding spiritual growth. We have the chance now to manifest the higher self, ie The Christ, Buddhic, Enlightenment nature. “The Word was made flesh, and dwell among us.” We are the temple of God and we must manifest ie exercise unto godliness. I would want to be reincarnated back to earth or human realm to be one with the higher self again. To promote peace, love, and light to my brethren. The other realms either you become an animal(lower self), hell realm(too hot ☺☺ or cold), ghost realm(thirsty), or deva(pride). I would be happy in the middle from a balanced prospective… Heavenly minded as a deva, but earthly practical good as a Buddha. Peace, love, and light ✌❤💡
Thanks for the comment David. I have contemplated the same thoughts.
Awesome article Josh! You are correct when you state that “the earth is the womb for the incarnate spirit to further develop the immortal or spiritual ego.” And on Earth, the soul develops faster than any other place in the Universe, as the Earth is a place of many challenges, including the fact that we are “veiled,” i.e. we’re disconnected from the rest of the Universe, thinking we’re all alone. But it was planned this way … for the fastest growth possible.
Thanks for another great post!
Christine
Thanks Christine. Your comments are always valued!
Josh,
An impressive article, especially the sympathetic and respectful way you approach Matt Slick’s viewpoint before carefully presenting your own… a living demonstration of higher consciousness at work and a good model for many of us to follow. You even included a reference to Matt’s full article. Especially interesting the way you addressed specific explanations of a conservative apologeticist. In some respects you have raised the bar a notch in scholarly discourse while still preserving your passion in expressing of your beliefs. I’d like to see more like this.
Thanks Robert. Sometimes we must be objective. As I said in a recent comment, there are always three truths. Our truth, the other persons, and then the real truth. That real truth is usually above and beyond anything our limited and subjective viewpoints can comprehend. Our limited egos are just that…limited. But if we present the info as such maybe we can all arrive at something that is worthy. Thanks for your comment. Much appreciated.
Heaven IS. It is a state of consciousness. All of life IS CONSCIOUSNESS. That is all. None of these is ‘out there’. They are inside of me and of you. It is my personal experience, and objective value judgement (righteous judgement = discernment) that we ‘die’ daily. We ‘die’ daily, in fact every minute of every day, to preconceived ideas and ways of being until we come to the TRUTH OF BEING. The place where we accept all. That does not mean that we make it part of ourselves or part of our lives. It is in the acceptance and knowledge of what is… i.e. if you will, all the levels of consciousness, including the collective unconscious, the subconscious, the conscious and the supra-conscious that we are made, or become, whole. The prize, if you will, IS heaven. IS DIVINE, IS ETERNITY, IS LOVE, IS PEACE, IS JOY, IS BLISS. These ‘things’ are not ‘out there’ they are each one of us. I AM DIVINE, I AM LOVE, I AM PEACE, I AM JOY, I AM ETERNITY, I AM BLISS. The acceptance and embracing of all things, makes us whole. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are monotheistic ‘religions’ – i.e. God as external… God as sacred ‘out there’, instead of God as you, God as me; I AM GOD; I AM SACRED. RMcG PhD
Good comment, Roberta!
Good topic!
Our only question should be, “Is the concept helpful?” And that depends, of course, on what it is used for. If it is used to strengthen the recognition of the eternal nature of life, it is helpful indeed.
Alvin,
It may have been by synchronicities that I came across this. I was wondering what your enigmatic message meant. And later in my musings through the internet today I came across the source of your statement, which in its context was more explanatory…from A Course in Miracles, section 24 (http://stobblehouse.com/text/ACIM.pdf page 74).
Others may be interested, but I suggest you read the whole section 24 through and not just react to the first paragraph. I think this is interesting and relevant.
Another great article Joshua. (The book you asked me yesterday to link to is
“Symbols, Meaning, and the Sacred Quest: Spiritual Awakening in Jewish, Christian and Islamic Stories”. https://www.amazon.com/Symbols-Meaning-Sacred-Quest-Spiritual/dp/1467926701
Roberta,
Intuitively, I agree with the end results you describe in CAPS. To me it is something not completely describable that I reach for in my heart and soul. I do not as yet see myself as inhabiting it fully or it me. I can feel divinity, love, peace, joy, bliss, eternity. I can also feel unattached to myself where I feel a kind of positive and restorative unoccupied space when I meditate and at times when I remember during my routine activities to relax and allow myself to grasp and inhabit some of that space.
Were we to both track where and how we each have both arrived at what you call the “all” and when I call a “divine goal” , we might not understand the verbal details of each other’s description of the path. For instance I will stumble in trying to accept the explanation that all life is consciousness and the source of everything is from within. If it were to mean that the external world is only a manifestation of my individual consciousness and does not exist outside of what I have manifested, then I would have trouble accepting that. I might consider that an interesting speculation that I have no way of verifying. Maybe if I identify myself as a part of a collective I (that is God Consciousness from which I am one of a trillion branching streams that have temporarily and purposefully incarnated) then I might have a better chance at accepting consciousness as the all, but still with considerable difficulty.
I totally agree with you that the conventional denominations of the Abrahamic religions tend to stress the external concept of God. It is the easiest concept to grasp at first for many. But there are sects in each religion that explore the inner concept of God. Some conventional denominations also encourage the individual to some extent to seek the God within and pour out the God within them. The God who is first introduced to them as exterior is then considered to inhabit them and work through them as “vessels”, but God is still a superior monarch. Even though the doctrine and jargon in these denomination reinforces the external concept, there are many who progress in ways beyond this limitation. Then again, there are others who challenge and resist what they are not prepared to understand. In short, I think I am saying there is a silver lining to the three religions.
I think there is also something to be said in favor of “doing” divinely inspired acts in the material world and not just “finding” truth. This may be a variation of the marriage Christine has mentioned, in this case between truth and actions. I think we come to know more truth by doing. There is some emphasis on this in the silver linings of the three religions. Not all doings in the name of these religions are inspired by the higher levels of consciousness. So I think this is where understanding the transformation of the ego is so pivotal, and where the three religions we know today are lacking. The terms and phrases in scriptures that are intended to deal with the ego are archaic and difficult to apply to our culture and sophistication. The journey of self-awareness is so much more than being saved from feeling unworthy, even though some of us may need that to pay attention to spirituality.
So I sympathize with your declaration as being God, Sacred, and of course RMcG PhD. I would say that you definitely have tremendous credentials. On a more humorous note, this is the first time I realized that God has a PhD.
Anny,
I am wondering if you could chime in on the Hebrew language aspect of the word for Womb in Job 1:21. You might have done this in the past. If so, could you bear with me and do a recap?
Hi Robert,
I do not remember ever having written anything about this subject before.
The Hebrew word for womb is ”rechem”, which is related to “rechama”, compassion, mercy and the verb “racham”, which means ‘to love’.
This points to the womb as being the place where the fetus is being cherished and cared for with love until it is ready to be born. So I suppose it also points to the process of incarnating being surrounded by love. And within this context the same about the process of continuous reincarnation. It is not meant as a punishment but as an instrument of growth.
Is this of any use to you?
Anny,
Thanks for taking a look at this. It is interesting that the Hebrew word for womb, rechem, is related to compassion and mercy. I have found that when I try to do my analytical thing and look stuff up, instead of trying to look a parallel or interlinear bible, I can take a short cut and just google it. So I recently googled “Hebrew word for womb” and it listed two words in Strong’s Concordance, “rechem” and “beten”. I clicked on each one and it took me to Bible Hub which gave full definitions from both Strong’s and Brown Driver Briggs Lexicons, and all the scripture verses it is used in. Turns out “beten” is used for what the English translation is womb in Job 1:21. More commonly it means “belly” but it has some specialized meanings such as “inmost soul” or “seat of intell. faculties”. You can get there at http://biblehub.com/hebrew/990.htm. That is as far as I am equipped to go. Maybe you can do a Gematria study.
Hi Robert,
I could have expected that you would start checking up on that. A good thing you did because now I discovered something new.
I had not looked up the text in Job as I did know the Hebrew word for womb by heart, having brought three children into the world in Israel. However, I just now looked up this text in my Hebrew bible to see which Hebrew word was used. And it was not the word ‘rechem’ but the word ‘beten’, which in my experience, and also according to my dictionary, means belly but not womb.
Of course the womb is in the belly but still. The belly has its own special meaning of inmost soul, as you wrote. In Dutch and German we have an expression like ‘belly feeling’ or something like but I do not remember if that is the case in English as well. With this feeling we refer to intuition more or less.
Of course the hidden meaning of the word womb still applies in this case as the womb is inside the belly and therefore belongs to it but still it might have been better if the KJV had translated the word ‘beten’ correctly with belly.
As far as looking up all sorts of things on the internet, or starting a Gematria study, I already wrote to you before that I work from my intuition mostly, combined with some things I learned in the past, and I do things like that only when I feel called to do so. Otherwise it would become a thing of the mind for me, which would somehow stop the flow of my intuition.
Thanks for sending me the link to the Hebrew English lexicon. That is something I can use, just like the link of the Greek – English New Testament you sent me. I appreciate that very much.
Anny,
By the way, I have given you some websites that have interlinear bibles. The following is a new one I think would be useful. It is free online access to Brown Driver Briggs (BDB) Hebrew-English lexicon. It is arranged alphabetically by Hebrew letters and lets you look up three letter roots. It is at http://www.ericlevy.com/revel/bdb/bdb/main.htm
It is the more spiritual of the lexicons.
Is there anything to references to reincarnation being removed from the Bible by Justinian and Theodora in the 6th century? If so, is there any proof?
Homer,
Really good question. I think someone who has access to academic articles in theology and religion would be the best person to research this directly. I did a search on the internet for about two hours and did not come up with any proof of the bible being altered by Justinian. If there was proof, there is some probability that it would be referenced in articles on the internet accessible to the general public, which is where I would find it. Maybe I did not look enough. Solid proof would be ancient scriptural manuscripts written before the 6th century that have more material affirming reincarnation than the scriptural manuscripts afterwards and the version we have today. Also proof would be references from the ancient church fathers to verses that we do not have in our bible. My feeling is that there probably isn’t such proof. If there was, I will be just as eager to read about it. What I did confirm is that reincarnation was a given through at least the 5th century. I don’t think the bible was changed, but I don’t know for certain. The doctrine changed radically because of Emperor Justinian and his plotting wife Theodora and was opposed by the Pope, whom he put in jail. Internet articles suggest that belief in reincarnation continued to be suppressed after the 6th century by the political network of church and kings because otherwise people would not be dependent so much on that network to assure that their one shot at heaven instead of hell was secure, and would therefore be harder to govern.
Like Robert, I have never found any evidence of this.
Hi Josh,
A great article about the process of reincarnation. Which I actually thought to be a very weird idea – and an awful one at that – until the penny dropped one day and I understood that it was a wonderful process.
I think you have to be ready for it in order to embrace this idea before you can accept it.
After reading Christine’s latest article about her Ayahuasca Experience, in which she experienced the interconnectedness of all life, I suddenly saw a connection of that with reincarnation too. All life is connected, all lives are connected, and all that within the context of the eternal Now as time does not really exist.
I also see it in connection with the entanglement of particles in quantum physics.
And with what I experienced myself more than half a century ago when I had a Near Death Experience in which I suddenly found myself in a sea of shimmering energy which was Love of unbelievable intensity and I WAS that energy, that love. All of it. That is why later the idea that God is All that Is made so much sense to me.
All separation is just an illusion, a game as it were, but the idea of separation might be a useful tool for a while. As long as we do not identify with it, which we did however.
Thanks, Anny.
Anny,
I guess these days the expression “until the penny dropped” is equivalent to the ” until the chip registered”. I remember shaking the gum ball machines back in the day to make sure the penny dropped. Now the delay is waiting for the credit card to be accepted.
You had an interesting NDE which has some element of similarity with some other reported NDEs and OBEs.
I really hope you get this message, Anny. Although, late, I’m hoping to still reach you somehow.
please email me at cooperjennifer1989@gmail.c om
I would LOVE to share my out of body experience I had that is EXACTLY what you described. All encompassing love and light. It was just amazing!
God bless you, friend.
Hi Josh,
Thank you for another excellent article.
If I may add some additional understanding on this subject of reincarnation.
We’re each reincarnated here on earth because of our past life deeds, because we’ve not as yet attained sufficient soul purification. And we will keep returning to earth, to matter, until we’ve learned the vital lesson that we must consciously choose the path of righteousness, unconditional love — away from our automatically repeating animalistic lower nature. That through this matter nature, our body, we must awaken consciously to spirit nature, for this is what this journey through hell on planet earth is endeavouring to teach or achieve for us, i.e. that we consciously create a space in consciousness to facilitate the higher love nature into our life as direct experiential awareness. That we commence the process of soul purification whereby compassionate creative love may reflect through our awareness to become our permanent state of divine consciousness.
To this end, meditation which incorporates transcendence is vital. Such daily practice transforms the lower ego personality out of its karmic-ridden identity, its attachment to the material world for sense gratification only. Creating a space between our incessant thoughts initiates this process of transformation of lower ego into higher spiritual personality. It transforms ego’s relativity nature of time/space bound status, initially into transcendental consciousness then into cosmic or bliss-consciousness leading to God-consciousness. Such infusion of cosmic / bliss nature into our conscious mind will retrospectively neutralize all past karmic penetration of the soul. And while past karma will still play out in our lives such will be lived through higher conscious awareness and will not detract us off our path to Unity consciousness and where additional karma does not take root to become future karmic seeds of desire for future transmutation or future incarnations. Previously such karma was through spiritual ignorance, where every action was contaminated, sourced through the root seeds of subconscious reactive thought patterns or spiritual ignorance — I’ve been there. Meditation dismantles this karmic dynamic, this bondage, this grip of the non life-serving mind sets thereby setting the soul free from such binding influence.
Once we’ve learned this vital lesson of transformation of lower ego into higher, then rapid spiritual purification is inevitable. Ignorance of this inner awakening to Christ consciousness results in unending reincarnations through different bodies until the awakening lesson is learned, acted upon and lived out consciously in our lives. Only then do we realize the beauty and potential of Resurrection within our consciousness, of our own eternal love nature, and where reincarnation back to earth school is no longer necessary, for further spiritual progress is carried on at higher planes of existence. To this end, human existence is said to be the gateway to all the higher planes of existence.
On physical death our attained level of purified consciousness carries over into the next phase of existence — where our soul finds its new personality on a different plane in a level of spirit happiness which equates with that level which we’ve managed to attain here on earth through our daily purification work. In this context, nothing of unconditional Love is ever lost.
True, Josh, we don’t learn life’s lessons (leading to soul awakening) in one lifetime for we’ve all been here many times before. But, that, the particular lifetime in which we do awaken to our inner spiritual nature – the Christ within — then, in that specific lifetime we can attain the soul purification necessary for release from the bondage of lower nature and ascension into the higher realms of divine nature.
In this context, daily meditation is the process which neutralizes past karma from repeating itself over and over again in an endless cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Meditation, and living its resultant nature through our fully functioning nervous system and heightened sensory capacity, to include left / right brain harmonization, is the means of making us free from the hell-nature dynamic.
Reincarnation is only necessary if we fail, for whatever reason in whichever lifetime, to complete the soul purification work. But, once we’ve commenced the process then we will each in time, regardless of our religious beliefs and doctrines –through repeated rebirths or lifetimes if necessary — find soul reunification in eternal God-consciousness.
Blessings to all,
Raymond
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Thanks to Robert & Joshua. I have, like so many, refused to accept the idea of reincarnation in the past, but over the last several years I have relaxed my staunch opinion quite a bit. I have read articles on the internet proposing an answer to my question, but those answers were not convincing to me. I appreciate this blog very much and those who offer their thoughts, even though I do not comment that often. I am still on life’s journey and I have gone down many “roads less traveled” during the past 11 years. Some of those roads have been a “dead end,” but I still have enjoyed the scenery.
Josh,
I think now that comments are dwindling down for this post, it’s time for humor:
1. “I didn’t believe in reincarnation during my past life either.”
2. “My kar-ma rode over my dog-ma.”
3. “Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.”
4. “Never laugh at your spouse’s choices; you are one of them.”
5. “If you believe in reincarnation, instead of your gravestone reading RIP, it should read BRB.”
6. “I was thinking I might come back next time as a seagull and eat chips and annoy people, but I’d like to be different next time.”
7. “We’re sending you back so you can pay off your student loans.”
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8. Consider the story of the two octogenarians on a park bench. One asks the other: “Do you believe in reincarnation?”
“Well, Joe,” replies Harry, “I’ve never really thought much about it.”
“Maybe we ought to start thinking about it,” says Joe. “One of us is going to go first. Let’s agree that the one who is left behind will come to this park bench every Wednesday at 11:00 a.m., and the one who has departed will find a way of getting a message to him at that time about reincarnation and all those other things that are beyond our ken.”
Harry agrees.
One month later, Joe dies peacefully in his sleep. Every week for several months, Harry takes up his station at the park bench at 11:00 a.m.
Then one Wednesday, at the appointed hour, he hears a voice, as though from afar.
“Harry, Harry, can you hear me?” the voice says. “It’s Joe.”
“Joe, for heaven’s sake, what is it like?”
“You wouldn’t believe it, Harry, about the only thing you do up here is make love. They wake you up at seven in the morning and you make love until noon. After lunch and a nap, you’re at it again right through until dinner time.”
“Good gosh, Joe, what are you and where are you?”
“I’m a rabbit in Montana!”
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9. “So, I hear reincarnation is making a comeback.”
10. Old man and young grandson are having a one-on-one discussion on a couch in the living room. Grandson says “Yeah, well, I didn’t believe in reincarnation when I was your age, either.”
Josh,
I did my classification thing that analytical types are known to do, and came up with different versions of reincarnation listed below. I did this to gain some kind of clarity, but I also now realize that classification is a limited form of cognition because it separates into categories, and sometimes the categories seem incompatible with each other, when in fact they may not be when understood from some higher perspective.
1. Reincarnation is automatic and happens according to karma.
2. Same as 1, and always advances higher consciousness.
3. Same as 1, and is fatalistic.
4. Reincarnation is by agreement as to the environment and opportunities you come back to and what issues will be addressed or goals targeted.
5. Same as 4, and spirit guides help to make sure the opportunity for progress can be made.
6. Same as 4, and it is important to have free choice in most things, even to go against plans and interventions, otherwise the opportunity to grow from making choices is diminished.
7. The cycle of reincarnations on earth end when one is ready to be resurrected into final immortality.
8. Same a 7, and some souls choose to return as avatars just before or after their last cycle.
9. The process of resurrection starts to happen during earthly life as the soul awakens.
10. The dead are in a holding place with limited activity until the next cycle or final resurrection.
11. There is opportunity for soul growth between lives.
12. The soul is transmigrated to a new body during reincarnation.
13. Same as 11, but what transmigrates is a core, a part of the soul, not the entire personality.
14. It is possible for the core to remember past lives.
15. The soul or core remains individual.
16. The soul or core is returned to a collective consciousness.
17. The soul or core is somewhere in between or a combination of 15 and 16.
Another great article Josh!
I read over Slick’s apologetic and found it lacking enough “meat” to push his argument. Yes, when we die we return to the earth (dust)-even kids know that. And Hebrews at best is sketchy as far as its authorship. I feel Slick could’ve done a better job.
I never thought about Job and Ecclesiastes for reincarnation. My thinking was from the New Testament when the people said that Jesus was either Elijah, one of the Old Testament prophets or John the Baptist. Another was the man born blind when the disciples ask Jesus did the man’s sins bring him to that state. To me, both these verses hint of reincarnation.
We also have to remember that the “R” word is scary to mainstream Christians. The idea that one could get a second (or more) chance after death kicks the quick trip to Heaven out the door for the faithful; whilst those “sinners” they want to see damned may bypass that fate altogether.
To be honest, I believe in the concept. As you stated, the one-shot deal makes no kind of sense. Who knows who I might have been an a prior life?
Thanks for sharing, Josh. Peace.
Dangerous Christian,
Saw your website post with scripture describing one of the political candidates in the US
A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;
Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.
Proverbs 6:12-14 (King James Version)
It is startling that the religious right backing this candidate ignore this scripture.
Josh and All,
I found the Mark Mason website at http://www.markmason.net/ and was able to read 3 1/2 chapters of “In Search of a Loving God” on the site for free, if anybody else is interested. The ebook is available on the site for $10. I like the detail he goes into in describing church history and church politics. I knew about the Spanish Inquisition, but never understood the background story about dwindling church influence at the time that led to using the Inquisition to try to hold onto the church’s influence and direct control of masses of people a little longer. Mason draws an interesting parallel to that situation and the religious fundamentalists in the US trying to control people instead of allowing free choice. I also found a reference in Masons’ book to Karl Rahner and learned a lot about his life and religious philosophy, including his explanation for the Anonymous Christ in other religions.
Josh,
Buddhist goes to buy hotdog from a street vendor. Vendor asks, “what would you like?” Buddhist replies, “One with everything”.
Very interesting article, Josh. The subject of reincarnation, from a biblical standpoint, is one that has greatly intrigued me for quite some time. You bring up some very good points for consideration. I believe there still is more in there (the Scriptures) to be fleshed out, although I have yet to find any of it, as I have yet to do an intensive search on this subject, but may do so soon. For me, there is nothing that makes more sense as to the end of physical life than reincarnation.
Back in 2003, after I was asked by a woman I then worked with to explain why I believe in reincarnation, I did so. She concluded that reincarnation was a much more loving way to address man’s deficiencies than the doctrine of hell fire.
How one can get the idea of God’s mercy “enduring forever” from the doctrine of hell fire just reinforces religion’s utter confusion regarding the subject. Just from a common sense viewpoint, reincarnation simply makes sense.
Thanks for the article, Josh. Very well written.
I believe that we exists since eternity, and I also believe that we live different kind of physical experiences. I also believe that Reincarnation is a linear process, but at the same time do I believe that onnthebother side, time is not linear, but all present, which quite changes my view about reincarnation. If it is true that past, present and future is all accessable on the other side, it would quite change the meaning of reincarnation, because that would mean that all our existanses are happening at the same time, we just just do not grasp it in this life.
Currently I am on a spiritual journey, where many fundamental believes start to change. I was brought up with the believe that we are unworthy, amd that only by being obidient and by sacrificing can we become clean. But it starts more and more to become my conviction that we have been worthy, or godly since eternities, and that what life is about is to rediscovere our godly essence in this physical realm and re connect to it. Once that happened, we will be obidient and sacrifice out of love, becausein essence this is what we consist of, love. Religon uses fear, hell and what not, to produce the same results, but the hardly come by real intent.
I am also still not sure about Karma… Suffering in this life for something I have done in a past life doesnt really seem right to me, since real regret and change needs some kind of awareness, which usually is not given with Reincarnation. But all these are just thoughts of cause. (:
I am not sure exactly how reincarnation works. I think we are all creators in that God creates through us, as we observe the world; God is the “I AM”. The physicist John Archibald Wheeler described an idea called the observer participation hypothesis, whereby the universe emerges as it is observed. The belief that we are separate beings from other things in creation is an illusion. I remember a dream I had and in the dream, I was out in the field with Jesus. We were picking up dead branches and putting them in a cart. Then Jesus told me to burn them all up. I think those branches represented thoughts that had no life in them, the thoughts of the carnal ego.
Peace profound to all.I am in agreement to the fact that reincarnation is a biblical teachings.The accounts of Elijah and John the Baptist is a pointer to its truth.The spiritual ego of Elijah manifested in John the Baptist to settle a Karma of beheading well over 400 Bal priest in the confrontation of who and how mightiful God is.
Jesus the Christ at the mount of transfiguration threw light on this,when he asked the question that “who amongst three apparitions of Moses, Elijah and Jesus had come”. When they could not answer the question he now said “one has come and you have pleased yourself over him. It was later that they realised tht he was talking about Elijah in John the Baptist who had been beheaded by Herod to please his mistress daughter request for a birthday gift.
Aside this in Africa where I hailed.That period of infant mortality was so high and a child gives in to death many times. The parents to forestall the child dying again,they will mark the body(etheric body)of the dead child. When the mother is pregnant again and at birth the new baby carries the mark at exactly the same spot on his/her body at birth.That is reincarnation per se.
I have always had my faith in reincarnation, as a 2 year old I had memories spilling over from previous lives, as did my daughter when she was 2. These fade as our souls settle into our current earthly sepulchres (our flesh). The first death of the soul is the fall in consciousness to the underworld (this earth), being born again is rebirth, a raising up of the consciousness whilst in a physical body, physical death is a change of bodies. This how we see eternal life. I have also been shown by the Lord that in this lifetime I have to re unify in the physical plane with the female aspect of my soul, so to become a totally balanced male/female pair. I have been shown who she is, however, I am still waiting for her to awaken from her sleep in sin. She is called the win flame soul, she is in the midst of awakening over the Easter period and comes to me in May as the Lord has shown me. What exciting times we are living in!
Karma is very real to me. Yin and Yang have to balance, You soul is on an educational trip on each life in the physical Earth. We have all been good and bad in our lifetimes, everything we experience in life is teaching us lessons. This life for me is all about raising consciousness and becoming one with all of creation. Once we have raised our consciousness, not even death can take it away, as our soul can return with full memories in a new body.
Excellent article Joshua! And Robert I can’t stop laughing about the reincarnation jokes HAHAHAHAHAH if I were to be buried, I’d surely put this one on my gravestone “BRB” LOL!
I first started knowing reincarnation when I started studying Spiritsm (I’m not sure how well this doctrine is known in the USA, it was founded by Allan Kardec, it has some pretty nice teachings regarding reincarnation) and my logical mind accepted it at once, even though I was raised in an evangelical upbringing, because I thought it was just senseless for a merciful and all loving God to give us just one chance to get it right. Keep up with the light! Blessings to all!
You say the Bible is full of references. I hope that you will comment on all of them. The subject fascinates me. I am on the dense side. I would like to know if a scripture that caught my eye might mean what I think it might. And if it does make sense have you already discussed it? Jesus said that no one goes up to heaven except him who came down, even Jesus. If I understand it, I think that endorses reincarnation. When my #1 child, & daughter, was 6 years old she asked me, “Mama, when you go up to God, & then come back, do you get the same parents?” I did not believe in reincarnation & seeing no need to make an issue of it, I told her “yes.” She said “Good, because I want the same ones.” I feel so bad to have missed a great chance to learn something. Now, she does not remember the conversation, & she does not believe. So I suggest that everyone be alert to what young children say.
Why cannot the passage simply be understood as “vulnerable” I came to earth out of God (out of my Mother’s Womb) and vulnerable, I will return there”?
It seems to me men became overly focused on earthly, physical, material, reproduction interpretations – to support material kingdoms & worldly dominion.