In its esoteric sense, the risen Christ is an emblem – built upon many symbols in Biblical literature – of the supreme intelligence dwelling in the holy temple of man, or, more accurately, of the mind. It is the end goal of human consciousness so aptly expressed by the Apostle Paul who stated, “I travail in birth until Christ be formed IN you.” The same sentiment is expressed in John 4:2, which further states, “Christ must come in the flesh,” or the expression of Jesus in the Gospel of John 14:20 which states, “In that day you will realize [consciously perceive] that I am in my father, and you are in me, and I in you.” In the context of all these scriptural expressions, one can begin to grasp Luke 17:21: “The kingdom of God is [truly] within you.” As above, so below.
But what is this supreme intelligence, the risen Christ, in the MIND of man? I like to think of it as the supra-rational order of the Logos, which is an alchemical combination of two concepts: love, or unity, achieved through the wisdom of experience, wherein the spiritual law, or karma, is ever striving to bring to equilibrium between the knowledge of good and evil within man. Jesus is THE MASTER emblem of the mind which achieved this great feat in human form. For he fulfilled the law, and IN Christ Jesus, the schoolmaster, or law, achieved its end result. True liberty from that law is the mind’s destiny. Again, in its esoteric sense, this liberty is expressed through the mind that is no longer identified with, or trammeled by, the passions expressed in the lower mind through the bodies of man. As Paul states, and I paraphrase many of his thoughts…these members must be mortified if the mind is ever to be regenerated and escape the prison shackles of what he termed the “flesh.” For he also states, the mind of the flesh is death…” (Romans 8:6).
The journey is long and arduous. There are many mental giants to slay. In our greatest trials and adversities, the Kingdom of Heaven is taken by force. Not physical force, but mental force. This mental force is the control of thought and emotion, that contrary to our true nature, is usually governed by personal desire in the flesh…until the resurrection, or that which is the conqueror, the Self over the Not-Self. Christ over the flesh.
But this is a paradox. How can using our mental faculties help us achieve spiritual growth if it is Christ, the true redeemer, and not the efforts of man him or herself?
The paradox is easily resolved, and one finds that it is really no paradox at all when one understands how the MIND grows spiritually. The rest of this post will deal with that subject in detail using some of the Apostle Paul’s greatest teachings.
Let’s consider the supposed paradox further: no man can redeem him or herself as traditional church doctrine teaches, because it is only through the saving grace of Christ. But the esoteric doctrine of past ages taught that man must save himself through his or her own unrelenting effort. Who is right? I believe both are right, because the concept of Christ coming in the flesh is an inherent part of both paths – faith and works – expressed through mental energy. My scripture to support this idea is written:
“As a man THINKETH in his heart, so is he…” (Proverbs 23:7).
Let’s break this down a little further. Paul uses symbolism to express this process. When the symbols are understood correctly, I believe the paradox is resolved. The author of Peter states that Paul’s writings are hard to understand. The reason for this is that Paul is using language that is esoteric / symbolic, and his symbolism expresses a process of MIND and THOUGHT. The popular teaching of Paul which states that a woman must be silent in church and submit to her husband is not speaking in literal terms. Failure to understand the esoteric teachings of Paul has led to misogynism in traditional religious doctrine. But Paul had no such ideas in mind. Paul uses terms like husband and wife, or man and woman, to show a process of regeneration of THOUGHT, which is why so many Greek words are used to express the concepts of correct thought in his writings. Let’s break down the symbols.
Man means the intellectual side of the mind. A woman is the emotional side of the mind. Man (mind) and woman (emotion) come together to produce sons and daughters, or more thoughts and emotions. The firstborn sons which God demands that the Israelites (little developed mental qualities) dedicate to God simply means that our first thoughts in all life should be dedicated to spiritual pursuit. When this happens, then the daughters of men (mind) become the righteous woman, meaning a healthy balance between the intellect and emotion-nature within us. Isn’t this the true meaning of Paul’s words when he states that we are the bride to be prepared for the bridegroom which is Christ? When our thoughts are captivated by personal desire (the serpent seducing Eve), the daughter or emotion within man becomes the harlot. The harlot symbolically cheats the intellect within each individual through adultery. Did not Eve do the same? Did she not symbolically drag the intellect (Adam) into the depths of sin, or separation from spiritual life of the spirit of God. This is the true meaning of the story of Adam and Eve. Adam, or the intellect, was not deceived (1 Tim. 2:14), for by its very nature, pure intellect of a spiritual nature cannot be deceived. But when it becomes entangled with lower emotion, or personal desire, it is always deceived, because personal ambition is the very root and cause of God’s saying: Man’s heart (mind) is deceitful. Why? Because personal desire, when mired with thought, creates a separateness from God, which is missing the mark, or sin, the veil. This veil is what Paul means when he states now we see, or perceive mentally, through a glass darkly (1 Cor. 13:12). Consider that when the fallen angels (higher minds from heaven) came unto the daughters (or emotions) of men before Noah’s flood. What was the result? That the imagination, or THOUGHTS of man, was evil, or veiled from the truth!
The garden of Eden is about the separation of mind and emotion through Adam and Eve, which come into conflict with one another after the desire mind (the serpent) tempts the emotional side of the mind to eat (perceive) the knowledge of good and evil. Paul understood very well that the concept of Good and Evil meant in genesis relates to karma, for he states, let God not be mocked, for a man shall reap what he sows. But this law of karma, represented in the Torah, has a redeeming quality, which is why Paul calls all of the law, or Torah, spiritual. This is also the reason why he saw Christ, or the Logos, within the Old Testament working alongside the Israelite delivery. For Paul, the Isrealite delivery is the mind liberated from captivity in Egypt, which represents mental bondage. So how does this law of karma have a redeeming quality? Because as a man reaps what he sows, he slowly becomes self-aware, through experience, of that which causes life or death. It is truly a schoolmaster to show us that the mind, when captivated by desire, brings death (or separation / sin) from the unity of God. The Israelites, once in the wilderness, desired to go back to that mental prison in Egypt because they had “flesh” to eat. The mind likes to stay where it is comfortable, even if it is a prison, because ignorance can be temporarily quite comforting. But even in that temporary comfort, death is the end result, for all the wages of sin (separation from God) are death.
God states, my people perish for a lack of knowledge. Ignorance, in all aspects of life, leads to destruction. The constant cycle of life and death, or, more accurately, birth and rebirth, is the destiny of the mind that has not conqueurored its desire nature, which is more subtle than any beast (passion of the body) in the field (the mental arena of life). The risen Christ at the end of the long mental journey signifies the release of the mind in physical birth and rebirth, and being able to explore higher conscious realms with a new type of spiritual body that hasn’t lost its true identity in the flesh.
So when Paul uses terms like man and woman, he is expressing the process whereby the mind of man once again unites Adam and Eve, and the conflict between intelligence and emotion can be finally resolved.
Let’s use an easy analogy. All married couples go through mental and emotional turmoil after the honeymoon stage is over, and the different currents of thought and personal desires of each spouse begin to clash. Why do they clash? Because each is an individual with different personal desires, interests, passions, beliefs, etc. What originally brought them together, personal desire, eventually becomes the very thing that tears them apart. The married couple that grows to maturity and remains a happy healthy unit can only do so by each one sacrificing his or her own personal desires for the other. Such a sacrificial love of action from the mental efforts of both parties brings a certain intellectual and emotional balance to the divided unit. Paul uses the natural concept of marriage to show how the same process happens within the individual. The risen Christ can only arise in the flesh when personal desires have been checked. Not only checked, but conquered. This is the long and arduous battle within the mind (the crucifixion of Golgotha, the skull / mind) or church, of the human being. For the church is not the body itself, but an aspect of the mind which is free from personal desires and pulls of our limiting and transient personalities. Personalities are formed through a complex web of thoughts and emotions in response to the environment and one’s own innate essence built up from former lives. It is very real to our current limited reality, but also transient and corrupt in the grander scheme in the unfoldment of consciousness. The mind, the immortal thinker, is a sojourner (the prodigal Son) in this land we call the body, and the personality which is formed in each life from the mind’s interaction of being in the body, must be transcended if the mind is to be released from its prison. Hebrews 11:8-10 esoterically illustrates this process which is also the allegory of the prodigal son:
“By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.”
The “tents” which are spoken of are the limited bodies which the immortal mind must endure its long process of adversity through, to learn and grow, and become self-consciously aware. This is why the original tabernacle of Moses in the wilderness was all called the “tent” of meeting for God and the people. The “city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God,” is all the mental faculties gathered together under the Christ, who sends the Holy Spirit, or wisdom, which transcends the limited nature of the bodies of man. When this is achieved, as Revelation states, “In him that overcometh I will make a pillar in the temple of my God (permanent mental foundation), and he shall go no more out…” (the cycle of birth and death, birth and rebirth).
Now let’s get into the nitty gritty of why Paul really tells us that a woman must be silent in the church. First off realize that the church is your higher mind, the immortal aspect of your soul. It has to be constructed of Christ, and little by little, our conscious essence is added to it in each life that you live whenever a thought reaches heaven because it is void of personal desire. It is the body (faculties of the mind) that the Christ is responsible for constructing as it permeates every aspect of our being, both body and soul. The disciples being centered around Jesus is representative of the 12 mental faculties being “gathered” together by Christ to be turned into apostles (mature mental faculties) at the next stage of spiritual and mental growth. Thus, spiritually speaking, we progress from Israelites, to disciples, to apostles. The Apostle Paul, that outside apostle who received direct revelation from the risen Christ on the road to Damascus, is symbolic of the bridge that births Christ within the mind of man.
Now Paul tells us that a woman must be silent in the church because it is our emotions of personal desire (the woman – think Eve that succumbed to desire) that distorts the intellectual and rational nature of man’s thinking process. The heart of man is deceitful above all else, because the emotional woman (within man, as the unready bride of Christ) is always speaking loudly and drowning out the ability for true intellectual discernment, or truth of the spirit. This is also the great harlot of scripture, and it must be silenced because it always distorts the truth through its own personal desires. So when one does as Jesus states, and goes into the prayer closet and shuts the door for spiritual guidance, all emotional thought governing the intellect must be silenced! But in this act of the focused mind, the seeming paradox arises. Even though it takes mental effort to silence the emotions, the intellect, in this act, is itself laying down it’s life (silencing desire) for the woman, which in turn allows the harlot to be transformed into the higher emotions of love and unity, or the righteous woman! In such a sacrificial act of the intellect, through faith AND works, the intellect stops being in conflict with its emotional side. It leads in love, which brings unity between the two.
This is why Adam states a man shall leave his mother and father (the parents of karma and the law) and cleave unto his wife to make them one flesh. This is also why Jesus stated that in the beginning (before the fall in the garden), God meant for man to be ONE FLESH.
Please don’t misunderstand. I am not dividing genders like the dead letter of the law would have us believe. Each man and woman has an intellect and emotional nature within them.
Those who think of a very mature married couple can see how this plays out on our physical plane of life, which REFLECTS a higher spiritual truth about the MIND. When a man leads in a LOVING way, not sacrificing his own intellectual convictions, the woman’s desire naturally is to her husband (Genesis 3:16). Most women respect an intelligent man that leads and governs his own life with self control, inwardly being a rock, but expressing this firmness outwardly in a gentle, kind, and loving manner. Again, in the esoteric aspect, we are speaking spiritually about the MIND. But even in it’s exoteric expression, one can see the truth in this concept in some instances.
The process of marriage counseling is another good analogy to grasp the esoteric concept of Paul’s thinking process. When the mind becomes focused inward, it becomes meditative, and then through this inward self reflection process self awareness can trace its emotional-thought patterns which cause reaction to situations based on desire or raw passion, leading to conflict. The marriage counselor of couples therapy serves as a mediator to get the other spouse to perceive mentally where their own fault lies so that they can change and allow the relationship to heal. But man, as an individual, must have his or her own mediator, the Christ within, which is a process of rationalization at first, that grows into an intuition of truth as the higher emotion of love and unity, or reconciliation, happens within the mind. Slowly but surely, when meditation is done correctly in the church, the mind can begin a healing process, whereby its own internal conflict can be exposed, and the limited personality comes out of the dark and into the light of Christ. In this mental process, of defeating mental giants in the land (the mind or soul), that the process of losing one’s own life (the limited personality) for the sake of Christ’s life, that Christ as the head of the church rises within the mind. Jesus stated, a man must lose his own life in order to gain life (Matthew 10:39). Man’s personality is simply a cut-off entity from the supreme wisdom of God. It is a false entity that is at enmity with God. It is the Cain within, as Cain represents the personality, but the process of going within enables the Abel within to offer correct sacrifice that is pleasing to God – and these are the aspirations towards a higher truth.
A few more thoughts. It has been said that the intellect without intuition is blind, but intuition without the intellect is empty. This is a crucial concept which the philosopher Immauel Kant reintroduced into an intellectual stream of society born of reason. I say “reintroduced,” because nothing is new under the sun, and it was a foundational tenant, though expressed in complicated esoteric terms, from ages past. But the point is this: both intellect and intuition must be brought together in union, each part of the whole united to function properly which brings the light of wisdom into the soul or mind. This is the function of Christ as head of the church. Christ is in the entire process, and becomes the resurrected Christ when that inner power and united faculties of the mind is risen back to paradise, or a state of heavenly union.
Just as Christ is an emblem of Divine Wisdom (a feminine function relating to intuition reaped from the womb / matrix / body / Christ IN flesh), the serpent in the Garden of Eden is also a divine emblem. And it can be properly understood esoterically only in its relation to the Logos in the grand unfoldment of its function. Jesus stated, “As Moses raised the serpent in the wilderness (the battleground of defeating mental giants), so must the son of man (mind) be lifted up” (John 3:14). The serpent caused the fall of mind, but allegorically it is really no fall. It illustrates the truth that the mind was no longer united with God because the desire of the flesh (the serpent mind which crawls on the ground, earth, lower soul) put the intellect and emotional nature in conflict with one another, resulting in the “lower mind” which is that which is operating through the body and its animal passions and desire nature. The higher mind, or the church, must be built. When one’s personal desires are sacrificed, the serpent mind can be “lifted,” or transformed / regenerated back up to its proper place. The esoteric interpretation of Mark 16:18 is the key: one of the signs that shall follow a believer is that he or she will “lift” up serpents. The original Greek word there implies a raising of the desire-mind to its original condition of purity before the fall. It is the serpent mind (or personal desires based on conflicting thought and emotion / personal desire) which is “cursed” to crawl on the ground. This means a mind operating in the body, or lower soul of man, where it is cursed to die because it is imprisoned by its captivating carnality. And now we can also truly understand the depth and meaning of Buddha’s second noble truth, which is the same as the Bible’s New Testament: “All suffering comes from personal selfish desire.”
The LOGOS of John chapter one I believe reveals this to us: the sacrificial Lamb that came down from heaven to oversee the rational order of creation by becoming involved in it, even in it’s separated and sinful condition. This is the real meaning of Jesus being sacrificed since the foundation of creation, and visiting the depths of hell, the body, or the grave, sheol. This is also the esoteric interpretation of that scripture in Acts which states that the body of Jesus did not endure corruption because he fulfilled the spiritual law which frees all bodies from corruption. Remember, that through the LOGOS everything was made in heaven and earth. What we see as evil or good, God sees differently. God made both evil and good it states in Isaiah. Evil is not some entity called the devil, but it is the tool God uses through karmic results to bring man to the knowledge of the Christ when he or she CHOOSES life. It is the same schoolmaster which God used to reveal to Job the truth of God’s nature. Before Job was tempted, he only knew God through the hearing of the ear, or lower mind knowledge. But after Satan is used, Job goes through the process of evil to come to a more full and complete knowledge of God by the end of the book. The three friends who accused him esoterically symbolize the three bodies of the lower mental, astral, and physical nature. When one understands this deep esoteric teaching, many of the seemingly contradictions of the dead letter of scripture will be cleared up for you. For the immortal thinker that you truly are is not the body, astral / emotional mind of desire, incubated in a physical body – Job’s three friends. But it is Job, the individuality itself! As is Noah and Daniel of scripture, which explains this one great spiritual revelation:
“Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it [physical life], they should deliver their own souls BY THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS, saith the LORD GOD” (Ezekiel 14:14). By understanding the esoteric nature of this scripture of Ezekiel, one may understand the entire Bible from beginning to end in the bigger picture, and the risen Christ within, which must be birthed within you through travail (the karma of spiritual law / TORAH). For you are the immortal thinker, the I AM THAT I AM, trapped in a physical, emotional, and lower analytical mind.
Blessings!
Josh, this is a great post. The way you tie the various and sundry concepts so misunderstood by religion into one cohesive unit, connecting seeming separate individual parts into a united whole, is genius. This article is magic, and I believe its readers will be extremely blessed. You give so many convincing “arguments” for the inner Christ, as opposed to an external Christ. I love also how you enhance the concept of “the Kingdom of God is within you.” Of course, because Christ dwells and rules in his Kingdom.
Really appreciate the comment, Paul. This was a little bit of a different kind of post for the blog, but I enjoyed writing it.
I have been away for a long time. I can see that since then you have developed a highly intellectual theology that keeps people engaged with scripture in a way that, for lack of a better word, “denies” the real life existence of Jesus Christ, his appearance in bodily form on earth, defeating Satan through crucifixion, and ascendance to the right hand of the Father until he once again literally returns to earth to rule. I don’t find that my mind makes up my religious experience as you imply or that my progress is a result of ascending to higher levels of an evolving self. When the Holy Spirit moves on me, in me, and through me it does so from an external source, not from me. That’s when all the good things happen. So I’m sorry but my experience leads me to reject your theology and the direction it is going, in that it detaches believers from reliance on, and manifestation from, the living God and guides them instead to tune into their supposed higher selves. You have erased the idea that God sacrificed his only begotten son to set men free from sin and death, and to depend on the work of the Holy Spirit to transform believers’ lives. You have turned the reality of Christ into a myth and set up a myth of self-evolution as a reality.
I guess when it’s all said and done, you have to do you. I get that this perspective can be scary and troubling to think about but looking at this through an esoteric or astrothelogical lens instead of a theological one really solves many of the discrepancies found in the Bible. It would be nice if the church would teach this side of scripture but that would go against the now enormous pickle that have placed themselves in.
Bishop Shelby Spong said it well : “Unless biblical literalism is challenged overtly in the Christian church itself, it will, in my opinion, kill the Christian faith. It is not just a benign nuisance that afflicts Christianity at its edges; it is a mentality that renders the Christian faith unbelievable to an increasing number of the citizens of our world.”
Those are some powerful words from a respected church leader. And he’s right. Just a cursory glance at actual history and not a doctored one quickly begins to shed light on what really happened two-thousand years ago.
I’m not trying to criticize you but help you. I used to be you. Raised Southern Baptist, baptized Pentecostal. Those were some difficult chains to break but break they did when exposed to the truth. The indwelling Christ is powerful indeed when we chose to “give it the wheel” as Kerri Underwood says.
Peace on your journey. I wish you nothing but the best. But remember to keep your mind open just enough to let another perspective have some consideration. It could enhance your life more than you know.
We are talking about an entire integrated message throughout the Bible that establishes the work on the cross by Jesus in the flesh, not just an issue here and there that can lead to different interpretations as to its immediate literal meaning versus another interpretation. I have been disappointed in some of the church environments I have journeyed through and so I sought answers outside what I had been taught. Right now I am aghast at the white evangelical support for Trumpism and the conspiracy theories circulating there, instead of the Gospel. BUT I have never been disappointed in my personal relationship with God, the manifestation of his presence, and confirmation in my HEART that God demonstrated the extent of his love for us by willingly allowing Jesus to suffer in our place to put an end to suffering for sin and death. It was tempting years ago to embrace Josh’s explanations of hidden meanings for minor issues, but it went to far, like a lobster boiling in water feeling nothing until the last minute, all of a sudden he crossed a line and threw out the Gospel. The Bible specifically states that denial of Jesus earthly ministry in his bodily form is a work of the anti-Christ and to reject such teachings. Apostle Paul warned of it as he encountered resistance to his Gospel message from the early Gnostics.
Robert, much respect for the viewpoint, but just a few additional points here if you wish. You state…
“The Bible specifically states that denial of Jesus earthly ministry in his bodily form is a work of the anti-Christ and to reject such teachings. Apostle Paul warned of it as he encountered resistance to his Gospel message from the early Gnostics.”
What if the bodily form is in, and through us? Just as Adam in the original Hebrew clearly indicates humanity as a whole, and not one individual named Adam, what if Jesus, as a symbol means the same? Then all the scriptures are reconciled. Just a thought.
Matt…
I believe you have made many good points here. Thanks for the discussion and expressing your views. Your quote from Bishop Shelby was on point. Never heard of him, but I think I might have to look further into him. Does he have any good articles I could reference? Thanks.
Hi Josh,
Thanks for your comments.
Spong is an interesting guy with progressive views on Christianity. I think he’s doing something good for his religion, especially with getting Christians to look deeper at the text. I prefer Richard Carrier’s blog myself, I guess because I’m a bit of a history junkie. His bedside manner is a little rough around the edges but I admire him greatly.
Anyway, here is a link to Spong’s site. I found it to be worth a visit.
https://progressivechristianity.org/bishop-spong-newsletter/
Thanks, Matt. And Richard Carrier has a very intellectual mind. He’s good at bringing the proper meaning to Greek words in context. I’ve followed it over the past year. I don’t think he understands the higher metaphysics of scriptural symbolism as it relates to the mind and soul, but he brings an enormous amount of knowledge to the movement of early Christianity and his knowledge of history in general of the ancient world is incredible.
I agree that he has very little grasp on the metaphysical side and that his knowledge of the ancient world is quite impressive. I guess you, like me, use Gaskell’s frequently to understand the deeper “inner kingdom” side. What a great resource!
Have you ever heard of Malik Jabbar? He has a collection of books (The Astrological Foundation of the Christ Myth, etc.) that do an amazing job of showing how religion came from the movements of constellations, signs, stars, and asterisms around the North Star (Polaris). Of course, there are the lunar and solar allegory components that Bill Donahue covers frequently in there as well. But his books gave me a much greater understanding of the numbers in the Bible from a seasonal perspective. Like the number 40, for example. He states that, from an astrological perspective, the number represents the transitional period from when the sun arrives at an equinox or solstice and the effect it has on the environment. When the sun enters the Spring Equinox, for example, Spring is here but not fully until about forty days have passed (May Day in older times). Winter still rears its head from time to time during this transition. He says this is why Jesus was tempted for forty days, it just showed the struggle for the sun to gain dominion from the cold of winter (Satan/Devil). A struggle or temptation has to occur. He also said that is why we celebrate Halloween when we do because it’s approximately forty days after the Fall Equinox, the night now officially has more power than the sun. Interesting and thought-provoking stuff!
Gee whiz, Robert Jay, I must credit you with motivating ME to making my, first ever, comment on Josh’s site. But, even at that, I’ll so so only tangentially.
YOU would likely promote that GOD, you know, the ONE who ‘sent His Only Begotten Son, to be murdered on your/our behalf, did so because HE LOVED US SO MUCH–you know, THE WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD.
Well, in that context, I picture most ANY loving father and what a loving human father might do. I envision the glove of the earth. Then I transform that into an atlas portrayal–you know, I kind of Rand McNally sort of presentation. Then I focus on modern Israel which is the WHERE that this act of SENDING JESUS TO DIE takes place.
Here’s what I wonder about your wonder: not picture the technology of the time and how far and wide JESUS took HIS message about 2000 years ago. Only a very miniscule number of people could have read anything HE might have written; so, HIS “ministry” was vocal. (Gee whiz, they actually had nothing to write on or to write with; so; verbal it was. That being the case, why do you suppose a truly LOVING GOD would exclude Pakistan? Argentina? Belgium? Iceland? China? Scythia? Sioux? Cherokee? Well, you get the idea.
Every year at Christmas when the celebration of, well, Christmas approaches I prepare myself for the usual PROPHESY OF ISAIAH. Well, you know, I usually ‘stir some stuff up’ when I make the observation that Isaiah say “son is given” and “child is born”. Key term: “IS”. You see, also, what you seem to miss is that the general idea expressed here has ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. In other words, it took the personage of this Galilee fellow to awaken the people of THAT AREA about the real reality.
As Paul clearly states over and over in Colossians: “Christ is ALL and in ALL.” Get it? It was not something NEW 2000 years ago. It has ALWAYS been the case. I figure it’s about time to listen to the REAL MESSAGE.
One of the Watchmen
Jesus’s ministry was verified by the Old Testament and expectations the ancient Jews in Israel had of a Messiah. That is why the Catholic church included the Old Testament in the canon. It shows he is not just anybody claiming to be a savior. He is a descendent of King David of which the Biblical prophets wrote the true Messiah would come and be rejected in this age by his own people until his return, and so the Gospel would be preached to the rest of the world, as has occurred.
Nc MtnMan…
Love the name by the way. Are you from the mountains of NC? I live in NC myself.
Thanks for commenting as a first timer. I enjoyed many of your points as well. I see it as you do. 2,000 years ago represents one point in time, but the bigger picture of the sacrificial lamb as expressed in so many scriptures makes the most sense compared to the theology of men. I don’t blame these men personally. Had to go through the same journey to arrive at the same revelations. In fact, I actually attended the same Messianic church as Robert (comment above) for about a year or so. I was there mainly just to learn, and at that part of my spiritual growth, I wanted to learn more about the Torah. I have always felt a deep connection with it’s ideas, but always felt the truth contained in it were concealed in the “dark sayings” which Psalms 78:2 touches upon. When I started my research into what a “dark saying” actually was, and how it was used in inspired spiritual writings throughout history, it become clear to me why the scripture also states that it God’s glory to “conceal” a thing, and the glory of a king (one who conquerors the land – his lower body for wisdom) to search it out.
By the way, I really came to appreciate Robert too through the time we talked. He’s humble, a great intellectual thinker, and I believe a true seeker, despite our differences in the way we interpret scripture.
Hello Josh, Yes, NC mountains–toward TN from Boone.
I’m on your mailing list; so, when I get a notice, I take a look. I have communicated in the distant past with Paul, who, if I rightly recall, is in NC–I guess I thought you were FL.
I have for a long, long time advocated for “clearing up” the concepts presented by the modern “Christian” pulpit. I have long felt that there is a deep, deep desire for TRUTH as outlined in the Holy Bible. OK; while I will strongly promote the Holy Bible I am adamantly ‘on record’ having said for DECADES that GOD did not quit “inspiring” writing 2000 years ago. In other words there is plenty of reference material available to make points. I am also the advocate for promoting the OBVIOUS fact that ‘Jesus’ and ‘Christ’ are NOT one and the same.
The only reason I respond now, as I am, is that there is, indeed, that quiet longing for useful information to handle/manage the upset world we find ourselves in today. I told someone just today that the Holy Bible is, indeed, a handbook on how the INDIVIDUAL can manage the living of life.
For my communicating this sort of information I strongly distinguish that ‘Jesus’ and ‘Christ’ are not synonymous. As Paul clearly states “Christ is All and in All”. As I point this out I explain that CHRIST is the ‘God spark’ that has been resident in every human ever to live. That ‘spark’ can be nurtured along from an humble beginning in the likes of a Bethlehem or it can show up ‘full grown’ as was the case approaching Demascus.
Well, I ramble too much; so, I’ll cut it off here. I do feel there is a great pent up longing for true spiritual guidance along the lines of what I have known from you and Paul.
Take care.
Your statement that Jesus and Christ are not one and the same, I believe, is absolutely correct, and a very apt recognition buried within the scriptures. “Christ” is more correctly termed as an “anoiting,” even in the the dead letter interpretation. How much more so in the esoteric view? I also believe the separation between the two is a crucial step towards understanding the synthetic whole. So I am right there with you. It also has to do with the Hebraic concept of “messiah.” Within the dead letter, this is why the orthodox Jewish faith cannot accept the literal Jesus as messiah. It’s not because the esoteric concept doesn’t align completely within their sphere of understanding Torah, but it’s because the Christian view of terming the esoteric concept of Jesus with the concept of Christ and Messiah is greatly misaligned, causing so many contradictions. If only the terms are understood esoterically it brings the entire picture together. So I understand your statements very much, and whole heartedly agree. So in my opinion not “rambling too much,” but very on point.
I’ve always thought about that very thing. Christ and Jesus are not the same .In fact this will be controversial, but It’s a title of one who overcomes.
John 7-14 when Jesus stated HE must go away. In other words his humanity in the story as people see him must go away so the comforter(Christ within) can come(be revealed.) But Christ has always been within before the foundation of the world
People are stuck in the external. I personally don’t believe there was an external. From the foundation of the world Christ was within as a seed. Even the book of Galatians in which Paul states that. In which the woman births within us and is a long process where Peter even states we are BEING born again.
The meaning of “Christ is all and in all” in Colossians 3:11 is apparent from the verse in its entirety: “Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free, but Christ is all, and in all.
It is about the same Christ in all his fulness and provision being in believers from all ethic groups, economic conditions, walks of life, etc. It is not about anything else.
OK; Robert, I’ll take you on. Let me say, however, that I have spent countless hours more than you on this ‘stuff’ and I have progressed beyond the nice and sweet approach of our host. And, since I am usually not so ‘nice and sweet’ and am ‘more on the point’, I am fully satisfied if Josh asks me to discontinue any dialogue.
Having said that, let’s return to the Colossians 3:11 text. (Now we could go back and incorporate Colossians 1:27 and more; but, let’s just go with what we got.) YOU qualify the verse with the concept of BELIEVERS. Nope. Not a factor. In a case like this I often bring up Hosea 4:6. In all the work demonstrated at this site what is revealed is KNOWLEDGE as opposed to BELIEF. I often tell people that until Kepler gave us his inventions about 500 years ago, people BELIEVED the sun ‘went around the earth’. Nope. KNOWLEDGE tells us a set of different matters–earth spinning on a tilted axis while circumnavigating the sun. (This is when I often will ask the question: given that Adam lived to be about 950 years or so, when and how did “they” figure out how long a year was? I usually, since the stage has been set, will follow up with the question: “How did Noah and the other 7 cut down the trees?”)
OK; back on topic. But I’m not through ‘messing with your mind’. I’ll just get this aspect ‘out of the way/on the table’: When Jesus is reported in the Gospels to have used the phrase “Son of Man” most all of those who might suggest, as you have here about ‘believers’, that He was speaking of HIMSELF. Actually it is much easier to comprehend if one follows along in yours and my discussion here on ‘THE CHRIST’ to see that He was actually speaking of just that very fact–THE CHRIST WITHIN.
Since the beginning of CREATION there has been in each and every individual what the Bible refers to as ‘image and likeness of God’. I often call it the GOD SPARK. Here’s the thing: IT has always been there. Even every Christmas when the modern Christian church begins its Christmas season and good ole boy Isaiah and his prophesy is entered into the equation, we hear that “a child IS born; a son IS given.” Isaiah did NOT write something that was to take place in 700+ years; he was talking about ‘right here and now’. Now, that too is a prophesy as surely as ‘the sun will rise tomorrow’ is a prophesy. (Yes, I know, the sun neither rises nor sets!)
You see, Jesus spoke some deep things. But, you know, evidence suggests He spent upwards of THIRTY YEARS figuring it out before He spoke it. And notice too that He was AT ODDS WITH THE ESTABLISHED CHURCH. Hmmm.
So, I say CHRIST is ‘inside’ the psyche of EACH AND EVERY individual and lies dormant until awakened, birthed into active existence, resurrected to life, whatever. Oh, and even if one can’t come to that awareness, the lessons are still true and active. Example: ‘Ask and you will receive.’ Yep. Except I have taught those who have some degree of trust in my studies that IF YOU RECEIVE, YOU ASKED. Yep, that is the lessons that one should engage in CLEARING UP HIS THINKING.
OK; enough for now.
NC
As a friend once said to me ‘you find what you are looking for’. In dutch it is a bit more direct ( ‘je vind wat je zoekt’ ).
At first very confronting until i found out that my mind was “polluted’ with all kinds of ‘questions’.
Thanks.
Thanks for your comment, Leo. How’s Thailand these days?
Firstly i need to correct the dutch saying into ‘ je zoekt wat je vind’. Which is pointing in the opposite direction.
Thanks Josh. Thailand”s climate moved to the rainy season. That means high humidity and hot, at midday 33°C (close to 100°F if i remember well). That drops to 29°C in the evening. The sky is cloudy, so humidity is high.
As for the lockdowns the situation is worsened. Very smartly the central government leaves the applying of strong measurements to the governors of the 70+ provinces here. Since code red was introduced as not too severe, ‘they’ now invented ‘dark red’. Off course the shaming and blaming keeps things ‘in check’.
On a brigther note opposition in the Netherlands is rising. Awareness is waking up (woke ?). In the parlement a motion of distrust is running against the current coalition. Voices are aired to put the whole lot in prison !
As Golgotha is the place of crucifiction it can make sense (be acceptable) that dr Hamer is now showing the world the effect of psychic trauma. He calls it DHS and he can describe a patient’s medical history by looking at the brain scans.
Imo a new truth should always include the old truth (explain how it functions).
Warm greetings 🙂
Hi Robert. Good to hear from you again! It has been awhile. We had some great email discussions a few years back and I still remember them. You always gave me a lot to think about, and I hope I did the same for you.
Getting to your response… I welcome differing viewpoints, and I’m glad you posted it. To reiterate Matt Elliot’s apt response, “When all is said and done, you have to do you.” The mind must accept what is most meaningful to it through it’s own experience. And I not only understand this, but support it. I’m also glad you posted it because I want to proffer to everyone reading how our belief’s, in many ways, are more unified than the natural, lower analytical mind understands. I’ll explain.
You state…”you have developed a highly intellectual theology that keeps people engaged with scripture in a way that, for lack of a better word, “denies” the real life existence of Jesus Christ, his appearance in bodily form on earth, defeating Satan through crucifixion, and ascendance to the right hand of the Father until he once again literally returns to earth to rule.”
First off, it’s not my intellectual theology. This is a universal understanding gathered from all ancient scriptures which teach us the same principles through different cultures, an understanding which mostly became lost to the dead letter. My point is that I didn’t develop it, and would never claim credit for such a beautiful, inspired way of explaining what we term “God” and the universe. But I have dedicated myself to understanding what was once explained by those who have come before us all in a very ancient past, and I have come to appreciate it very much.
Secondly, I do not deny the literal interpretation, unless you mean by chronology. Whereas you believe that God sent his Son 2,000 years ago, I believe Christ was crucified since the foundation of the world, or the beginning of time. And not just in the “mind” of God, as an idea, but as an actual involvement in all of creation, or as the Jewish mystics so aptly put it, the “outer garments” of God being this physical universe. This is the original sacrifice of the lamb, the spirit involved in matter, bringing life (motion) to the void, or unorganized form. Remember, nothing was made that was made in heaven or earth that was not made through Christ, the Logos. A careful reading of John 1 and Col. makes this abundantly clear. Christ is not just in man, but in every atom as a vehicle for spirit to bring to life and order. SO did the crucifixion happen? Absolutely: the Logos was crucified from the beginning, but now man, who wishes to know God, is called to crucify his own limited personal nature in order to do so. And neither do I deny that Christ comes in the flesh. Christ, or the Logos, is in all flesh, as said before, and it could only happen this way. The epistle of John chapter 4:2 makes this concept clear, but most people miss what’s said right below it, in 1 John 4:4: “For greater is he that is IN YOU…” This also lines up perfectly with NC MtnMan’s comment below from Col. which says that Christ is all and in all. The lower analytical mind easily misses the point in John 4:4, I believe, because it is so biased by man’s theology that skips right over it just as it skips over the concept that everything, literally everything, is through the Logos. Is it not a great sacrifice that the Logos would experience all the evil (that God also creates as stated in Isaiah) in order to lift back up all flesh and matter and the world back to its rightful place through love wherein all things are brought back into the unity of God from which it originated?
Thirdly, I do not deny the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God’s wisdom (love and understanding) liberally given to all minds that would deny this lower limited nature, to unite with truth. As Jesus said, in order to gain life you must lose your own. This is an inner revelation, and no physical brain of flesh could express all of it through a simple verbal confession and belief which does not renew or regenerate a mind, for a regenerated mind is not a belief at all. It is, as you point to, an experience, which all logic dictates comes in growth through revelation.
Fourthly, Satan, I believe, in it’s correct context, is this natural, lower, limited analytical mind which is at enmity with God. It takes the influence of the Holy Spirit to transcend such thinking, which are based on theological “beliefs” by the way. Peter, the apostle who symbolizes this lower mind, was told by Jesus, get thee behind me “Satan” for you UNDERSTAND not the things of God. How can we be sure that Peter symbolizes the natural mind, which recognizes the higher, but still denies it through it’s misunderstanding? Because even after acknowledging the Christ (which is easy for the mind to do), Peter still denies him. And even after the revelation he received from the Holy Spirit, he still had to be set straight by Paul! Isn’t this the epitome of the intellect sometimes? Of course it is, because without a greater revelation of the Holy Spirit, the intellect is blind and stubborn. And yet Jesus still tells Peter (the lower mind) that it has the keys to lose and bind, meaning, it must develop to a place where it can lose and bind. Robert, why does the Hebrew word for “Serpent” and “Messiah” have the same numerical value of 358?
Serpent = nachash = 358 (50 + 8 + 300 )
Savior/messiah = mashiach = 358 (40 + 300 + 10 + 8 )
Think on this.
The scripture shows us that the risen Christ is the risen serpent. These are not my words, nor my idea to make these Hebrew words have equivalents. Moses and Jesus’ sayings give us the keys.
Fifthly, in one of the articles you sent below through a link, a scripture is quoted that I think the is also easily missed because of religious conditioning. It states:
“Let THIS MIND be in YOU which was ALSO in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be EQUAL with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.”
Let’s consider that. The Apostle Paul, a mystic for sure, tells us to have this same MIND, that considers being EQUAL with God. But the second part of that verse is the key…in that we make ourselves of no reputation! This is the key to it all. When we deny ourselves, then the wisdom of God can be assimilated into the intellect, which is the function of the Holy Spirit. In denying ourselves, and loving, we KNOW Christ, or at least, we come to know, and revelation after revelation is revealed. This is a universal law, for even in the physical world, every action has an opposite and EQUAL reaction. We we deny the personal desire nature, we grow into the will of the Father through love, and Christ is truly in us.
One more important concept. Jesus also taught in John that anyone who loves comes to know him. One cannot truly love unless one denies himself, for this is the true meaning of Love, which is God, and that is that God is ONE, unity. Jesus didn’t say you KNOW me through what you belief, or accept as true based on a religious belief system. This is a lower analytical mind principle. Anyone who loves is born of God, which is a higher synthetical mind principle under the influence of the Holy Spirit. That’s it. Theologians have taken the original message and misinterpreted the “parables” (Gal 4:4), and “dark sayings” of the entire Old Testament (Psalm 78:2) and made them a dead letter of law, instead of a spiritual understanding of the law.
Robert, I am not trying to argue against you here. I respect YOU and your response, and I thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. And you do not need to apologize for rejecting my writings, because I do not write to convince you or anyone else. I write to only share my experience. My experience is summed up in Matt Elliot’s reply to you when he quoted that very wise (at least I consider it to be) saying from Bishop Shelby Spong.
In saying all that, and to close, I am sure that I get a lot of stuff wrong on this site. How could I not? We’re talking about the concept of God and the universe and the mind. These are immensely complicated subjects to ANY finite mind such as myself and anyone reading this. Maybe I am wrong on a lot more that I am willing to admit, and if I am, I pray (become consciously aware of those limitations) and hope I have the fortitude to humble myself when it is revealed to me. For I do not care to be right, but I do care to KNOW, because my mind won’t let me stop until ALL of the scripture comes together in a logical, meaningful way, reconciling every concept. This is what I choose to dedicate my life to, and the older I get, the unction becomes stronger, and I am not even fully sure why. In the past I have read through some of my older writings, when I considered myself a little less “mature,” and thought, why did I word it that way. It seemed a little prideful, or divisive. But I don’t change it because I want even my own growth to be on display in an honest way, because that is the nature of life, mind, and spiritual evolution.
Josh, this is an isolated comment. By that I mean ‘only a small, selected aspect’ as opposed to the full concept.
I comment because I often take issue around Eastertime when the terminology of CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST rings in the air. My comment is ALWAYS, “That which is CHRIST is everliving and CANNOT be extinguished.” At Golgotha it was the BODY OF JESUS that was crucified. Jesus, as I tell it, was the PERFECT CHRIST. ALL of the ‘rest of us’ have the Christ within; however, most have no realization of it. For someone to be told, “You must ‘let Jesus come into your heart.”, it is a baseless message. Jesus was, indeed, historically, the WAYSHOWER–how to do it. Also, the ‘messagebringers’ to the person tell us about LOVE that Jesus spoke of and exemplified. They do NOT understand the concept of what LOVE actually is.
I beat the drum and I beat the drum that the JESUS MESSAGE was simple:
YOU MUST PICK UP YOUR OWN CROSS AND CARRY IT EVERYDAY.
Did I say, “EVERYDAY?”
Jesus said more: “Unless you forsake YOURSELF and all your family and friends YOU CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.”
In other words, the message is about DOING THE WORK. Did I say, “Work?” It ain’t about how sweet and easy it is if YOU WILL JUST LET JESUS INTO YOUR HEART.
‘The work’ is about SACRIFICE. LOVE is an individual SET POINT that is ALWAYS ON. By that I mean that it (the triggering of LOVE) is NOT a matter of thought.
I attended Virginia Tech (BS 1968) and was in the Corps of Cadets all four years. About a year ago another alumnus of Virginia Tech became a recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor and his name was engraved on a Memorial there on campus with his fellow predecessors. His ‘act of valor’ was that, in VietNam a grenade had been thrown into the gathering of the company he commanded, He, INSTANTANEOUSLY, threw his body onto the grenade and saved countless lives. As I say above, it was INSTINCTIVELY built into his body system–LOVE, that is. This is an example of the ULTIMATE SACRIFICE that is the product of LOVE and NEVER SETTING THE CROSS DOWN.
The scriptural message about CRUCIFIXION is that it is the human body and its SENSE BASE that must be SACRIFICED in order that the SPIRIT rises to the occasion. All sacrifice does not have to be the case of PHYSICAL DEATH; but it is, indeed, a matter of sacrifice and, mostly, sacrifice is the ‘giving up of personal comfort”.
This is my 1st time on this site & you’re the 1st person I’ve decided to reply to . Needless to say , there’s so much to understand in all these comments I’m reading , but I do get what’s trying to be laid out for people to understand & for me it’s pretty basic . That all being said I just wanted you to know how powerful this quote you made , & how deep it’s meaning impacts deep inside my being , ” I do not care to be right , But I do care to KNOW . Powerful words my friend 🙏
Based on my studies under Rudolf Steiner and others, Christ is a literal and real being. An ancient spirit that lived on the Sun. Christ incarnated into the man we know as Yehoshua/Jesus.
Erik, I don’t want to dissuade you from anything you are studying. But I will proffer this to ponder and delver deeper into…
Rudolf Steiner and Annie Besant were brilliant in their own right. They have many, many things to offer. But compare their works to the original works of Blavatsky, of which they were a stream of teaching and thought that was birthed out of her, and then changes. She has the original wisdom teachings which came way before. And they are in direct contrast into the deepest mysteries of what even Rudolph (which I admire) teachers. If one delves into her concepts of the emanation of the ONE, you can trace the lowest teachings and WHY they came forth from the highest. This will take much depth. But I believe if you delve deeply enough, all of these questions will be answered from your inner self, and it will become a truth to you that doesn’t rely on Rudolf, Blavatsky, or anyone else, because the truth is there buried even within you. But one has to trace all causes to all effects, and then transcend both the question and answer. 🙂 And then who cares what anyone says or thinks 🙂
I guess I could have edited that just a tad. Of course that would be ‘globe’ and not ‘glove’ and a couple of others that can be ‘figured out’.
https://activechristianity.org/has-christ-come-in-the-flesh.
Here is a link that explains why it is important to acknowledge that Jesus came in the flesh. I had trouble posting an actual link on SOS, so copy this into browser and put www. In front,
activechristianity.org/has-christ-come-in-the-flesh
Oh. It posted the link after all. It didn’t show up before.
Here is more proof of what the Bible says about Jesus on earth being a man, not a myth.
https://activechristianity.org/12-verses-that-prove-jesus-was-a-man-we-can-follow
Robert Jay, it should be noted that I don’t usually engage in formats like this; but, you know, sometimes things just fall into place. I’m veering off just a tad; but, I had another exchange elsewhere that has a slanted application.
There had been sermon delivered on Luke 10 when Jesus and ‘the lawyer’ engaged with one another. I’m using that reference to address your ‘flesh’ and ‘Jesus’ matters. I engaged the messagebringer because my daughter had been one of the listeners. I wished for him to ‘clear up’ what I thought was a ‘miss’.
Here’s the scripture:
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Now, here’s my point: Jesus did NOT include Himself in the formula. In fact Jesus did NOT say anything about His impending death as an essential element. In fact, Jesus did NOT even tell the lawyer that it was necessary to even BELIEVE the He, Jesus, was the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
How ’bout that?
Good point. Which also goes along the same vein of what Jesus states in John about what it means to know the Christ. It isn’t about analytical belief, but about wisdom, which can only be assimilated through giving up of one’s personal self. Thee desire to know for the sake of being right, or to get to heaven, etc. These are still just personal desires. Is our motivation to come to God out of fear for our own dissolution (the Christian fantasy idea of hell) and to get a reward (heaven), or is our desire to KNOW for the sake of TRUTH, regardless of how the personal self views it with its limited biases, societal conditioning, etc.
This is a little off topic but I couldn’t help but notice the North Carolinians in this thread. I’m also from the NC mountains. Small world indeed.
Nice, Matt. All our thoughts are localized 🙂
Lived in Durham, NC near the RDU airport for eight years or more, before moving to California in 2019. My home church is still in NC, Cary, which my wife and I participate in online. It’s a Messianic Jewish congregation with a culturally diverse membership of 400 or more that adapted very quickly to having online meetings on Zoom, instead of violating the law by squeezing people and their potential Covid germs altogether to start superspreaders as some wayward churches did. I have a hard time accepting that some church leaders acted so irresponsibly claiming their right to assemble under the Constitution, when the intent of the Constitution was clearly not to propagate pandemics. And some meetings were not socially distanced and with no mask requirements. Rebellious to the core. Maybe that’s why John wrote the book of Revelations warning wayward churches. Told them they would lose there lampstands if they didn’t repent. But other churches were more sensible and worked around the pandemic so people could still assemble online. The Apostle Paul did say to assemble. And he did formulate a hierarchy of church authority and roles so people could be taught properly and find opportunities to minister. I wouldn’t blame anyone who wouldn’t go within ten feet of a church corrupted by politics, but there are other ones.
Robert, please check Edgar Cayce (the sleeping prophet) on the subject of Revelation.
As for the term ‘superspreaders’, imo it refers to people with an active solar plexus, spreading dung like a hippo. That hippo dung is mostly undigested and it will feed a whole ecosystem.
Gnostic of various sorts existed before the times of Jesus Christ and their common theology was based on the ascendance of human spirituality through various routes of enlightenment by tapping into the already indwelling divine nature of man. You might say they believed that God is in man, man just has to seek and find it. The Bible says nothing of the sort. It says man is sinful by nature, in fact, spiritually dead in sin, incapacitated, and separated from a perfect and holy God who created man. But, there is a remedy to bridge the gap between holy God and sinful man through the ministry of an intercessor, Jesus Christ, the son of God, provided by God the Father. Christ was in the beginning and the creator of all things with God the Father. This is the Christ the third person of the Godhead who is eternal past, present, and future. Jesus is the manifestation of Christ to man to lead him out of darkness and empower him from above to change. The empowerment from above begins to manifest itself as an empowerment from within when a person first surrenders to be saved and then is filled with the Holy Spirit. The empowerment wasn’t there in man waiting for him to find it. It was given as a gift of grace by the Father. Christ does not come within until requirements for repentance and profession of believe are met. Only then does the believer who was previously empty of the sprit become filled with the spirit of Christ. The eternal Christ and Jesus are not separate, but Jesus is the eternal Christ manifested in the flesh. Jesus is the spark that ignites man’s spirit. There is no spark in man to begin with.
Robert, the teaching that Satan, who was created perfect with wisdom falling from Heaven / paradise is the same as man, created perfect, falling from paradise. Satan is the developing intellect. Just as Adam is. Satan falls because pride entered in him. Pride is a function of the intellect. Adam fell because he gained knowledge, or the ability to know. It’s quite plain…
“And now man has become as one of US (the Gods / Elohim) to KNOW good and evil.”
Good and evil are just two opposite poles of consciousness awareness. If you only existed in luke warmness, you would never KNOW heat nor cold. Just like you cannot KNOW love until you experience it’s opposite. Just like Job, who was perfect in all his ways, didn’t KNOW God until AFTER his ordeal with Satan. And ironically, when God shows up, he has a multi-chapter intellectual discourse with Job, and then he comes to KNOW God personally!
There is a pattern here. Man had to develop an intellect in order to use it to assimilate Wisdom through experience. True, the intellect is blind without wisdom, but so is wisdom useless without the intellect. This is why the raised serpent brings healing (wisdom). On the ground (lower intellect) it is cursed, wretched, and blind and naked. Raised up, it is wisdom again but with the added self awareness and free will choice. This is why the Gospel of Mark says that one of the signs of a believer is he who RAISES up the serpent. The Greek word there, “take up serpents,” means raised. It’s all plain for anyone who just thinks about it without the dead letter. God says, my people perish for a lack of KNOWLEDGE. This is same Hebrew word used for the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. The mind partaking of the Knowledge as symbolically shown in Genesis is the first step to having wisdom eventually birthed in the mind. The fall of man in Eden is an allegory for the fall of the mind, which had to happen in order for the spirit to create an intellect, which would eventually come to express wisdom.
The story is the same with Prometheus (who stole fire / the intellectual spark) of heaven and gave it to man, and then man could develop culture, art, laws, and philosophy. Then Zeus punishes him. In many ways Prometheus mirrors Satan in this part of the story, who is punished by God.
How could Adam and Eve have disobeyed anything when they didn’t have sin in the first place? If they had no knowledge of sin, evil, wrongdoing, how could they even KNOW to eat or not eat of knowledge much less even understand what they would do would be disobedience?
It’s just as ludicrous as the idea of a God of eternal mercy creating souls to throw them into an eternal fiery torment. Or religious doctrine which wants to take an immaterial soul and burn it with a material fire.
Did an omniscient God expect us to believe such ill logic, or man? Has the dead letter made God in man’s image?
When Satan was kicked out of heaven as lightning…that’s the beginning of your spark. God created evil so that we may come to KNOW good. Now that’s mercy and love! Think about the story of Job and I think it will make sense. Job was perfect in all his ways, yet he didn’t KNOW God. He only came to KNOW God through Satan’s ordeal.
Satan is just a symbol of intellectual pride which sacrificed God’s wisdom. The risen Christ is wisdom / Holy Spirit of God birthed into the mind.
Another thing that’s quite ironic: it is probably that because of a Gnostic that you even have your Bible to read in its current form. Many scholars believe that the New Testament cannon was gradually formed in response to Marcion of Sinope, who ironically was probably the first man to compile some of the New Testament. It can be quite possible then that it was the efforts of a Gnostic that enables you to read the New Testament the way you do in the first place. Just a thought, which, if true, shows how ironic all of this is.
At any rate, everyone has to believe what he or she believes, through his or her own experience. But it is my hope that people don’t become afraid when they began to see the inconsistencies in scripture (they are only inconsistencies under the dead letter interpretation) and question their validity. I think God would have it no other way.
Josh, it seems to me that you are treating the Bible as one of many mythological vehicles to convey what you believe is some pre-existing universal truth. That is not what the Bible says it is. Jesus in no way identifies himself as just another mentor. Libraries full of Gnostic literature, years of researching them, and opinions of people who hold themselves up as learned, is not going to change that. Apostle Paul says he preaches Christ crucified, meaning Jesus on the cross, and that’s the long and short of it, no matter how any one tries to bend it to mean something more complicated. And he goes on to say Jews (who are not saved) get offended by it, and Gentiles (who are not saved) think its nonsense.
Robert, I think you are correct here. The Gnostic writings were very interesting to me, because until I learned they even their writings were not literal, and very veiled, I used to think, how can anyone have believes this garbage. But I judged them too quickly. And of course there were some branches of Gnostic thought that I do not at all agree with, just as a Christian who believes in mainstream teachings might reject some of the ideas of another denomination. But what really go me interested was when I started to branch out to much older Eastern writings and learning that those symbols were the same ones used in the Bible. There is a universal cohesiveness to all the ancient religions of our world when you get to the bottom of the symbols used. It’s fascinating.
We can’t say Paul was a Gnostic because the term was invented later and used for people who came after him. But I believe Paul was a mystic, initiated into the higher mysteries, who could claim that he got his teaching from no man because he came to understand, through experience, the higher truths and realities.
I really do expect most find my writings strange, off the mark, etc., which I’m sure is true for all of our ideas. Both the mainstream doctrine and the mystical doctrines. And I’m also sure there’s some truth found within both. But to say that mainstream religion is what contains the kernel of THE truth seems to me very improbable, but it’s very hard for the mind to see unless one becomes an independent thinker, who is courageous enough to step away from everything man teaches and goes within to reason with God alone. When a seeker does this, and their motivation is correct, I believe the answer will come in the form of wisdom.
Blessings, Robert.
Your quote: “But I believe Paul was a mystic, initiated into the higher mysteries,” I think hits the nail on the head.
When the Greeks conquered the Mediterranean, they brought with them the idea of mystery schools. Carrier covers this in detail. I mean, there were pre-Christian dying and rising messiah cults like Romulus, Osiris, Adonis, Zalmoxis, and Innana to name a few. Innana is the oldest of them all and was female. She was also “placed on a hook”, died for three days, and was resurrected. All of them were mystery schools. So, if a religion were to arise in the Mediterranean during this time, it would look like Christianity to a T.
Matthew Chapter 13
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Those are just a few examples of Christianity following this template. There are many more.
I’m not trying to offend anyone. Just my thoughts on the matter. I think it’s vitally important to research actual history without viewing it through a theological lens. Only then can we arrive at some sort of truth on the subject.
Regarding your mention of Jesus as a serpent, the serpent represents Satan. Jesus cast Satan out of heaven. He’s not the serpent. He gave the disciples power to trample on serpents. Satan is a liar. The serpent lied to Eve. Jesus is not a liar. Jesus is our Lord, friend, and advocate before the Father. Satan the serpent is our accuser. The law came through Moses, but grace and truth through Jesus Christ. When I assess what you have done in the last few years, gotten things upside down and inside out, substituted some other activity for prayer, I’m not sure what, don’t assemble or submit to any hierarchy of authority, encouraged your followers to go by their personal opinions of the way they like things to be instead of the way they really are, to trust their intuitions regardless of whether they run counter to the Gospel, bending scripture after scripture to fit a Gnostic model that defies the scripture, it is not a pretty picture as I was hoping to see. It does not mean I don’t respect you. But I am telling you for own sake that you are on the wrong path and leading others along. I don’t expect you to change. This is your thing. And I expect your followers will defend you to no end. So I will pray for you and your following, and the direction of your ministry in the manner you consider the old fashioned way, the way that Jesus and Paul taught us. I don’t expect to be commenting any further in the near future. So be well my friend.
Well, I, for one, hate to lose you, Robert. It is through what I call ‘challenged dialogue’ that the wrappers are taken off MANMADE CONCEPTS.
You, largely, seem to be promoting what I call EXTERIOR CHRISTIANITY. That is just fine because we all have starting places for our journeys. As I have already stated, “I like to stir up conventional thinking.” Well, it’s not even that so much as “I stir up set-in-stone FEELINGS.” What I mean by that is that it is extremely rare that there is even ANY thinking involved.
I’ll offer another of my ‘off the wall’ examples. In Genesis when Eve and the Serpent are flirting about the apple, Eve tells the Serpent that she has been told by GOD HIMSELF that, if she eats what the Devil is proposing, she will SURELY DIE. The Devil says, “Nah, no way.”
Well, two things: 1) she eats the ‘forbidden’ fruit, and 2) she does NOT die. Well, not for a few hundred more years if she kept up with Adam. (Again, my ‘thinking’ question: When and how did they figure out how long a ‘year’ was?)
So, did GOD get it wrong? Was the Serpent right? What gives here?
NC
Thanks, Robert. I respect you as well.
Emagine:
[planet] Earth lawfully dissolved on March 13, 2020,
and new, concordant, heavens and earth dis-covered,
with new jeurusalem over 144 sq km San Francisco,
duch-dom, home to spirit, in full breadth lifted God,
to novy Venix, atop myrrh and frankincense,
in California, Mount of Olives, initial place,
before carrying away into suevilon [babylon],
to new (old) world, where slevons roared,
first of four beasts, empires, kingdoms; and now,
old sacret bird, resembling eagle,
hooded [h]Romish empire, with many names,
first twice and somewhat longer than it was wide,
its Crown [koruna] and state-hood infected, utterly doomed,
thousand years after Jesus [meaning hedgehog] frowned,
without M in all numbers of last beast,
without morphed J/I that added one day; and also,
dialects of Hebrew, Greek, and Latin,
French, English, and so on, hailing from swabel,
springing from living, original, scythian tongue,
Cetus pronounced kertus [krt; mole],
B’reshith meaning dawning, elevated approaching,
Sabbath, Saturday, starting with Moonday
being heliocentric week’s [Word; vah; vec] seventh day; and
poor God, mud-bound eEl, also as gad, cad, as in Cad[iz], and
had in Had[es], meaning Serpent, satan [hashatan; meaning
chestnut, alluding to sun’s appearance, Glory-full rise];
and finally sun’s body now ought to advance one day and
somewhat more, retract week, and utterly resurrect
(December 24 ought to be known as December 25,
Christmas, Easter, New Year, new Jar/Spring, etc.)
carpenttarius
(Serpenter [[Sag-Oph-]Sco with Ant[iM]ares])
The Serpenter (“eEl-ohim”; Pawleel [Naha-sh; “Mashiach”]; Son…)
with the Word (“[Yeh-]Vah”; [Sol/Slo-]Vah [7]; Holy Spirit…)
fulfill the Circle (“eEl”; [the lifted] Serpent [God/NH/Noah/Noha/Naha/Nacha/Naga/Nada/Had/Gad…]; Father…)
Before sun-rise – Brought forth (dis-covered) – Serpenter…
The Sol[u]amon-dar (salamander; sl[/u]nko-a-Mesiac[h]-; j[/E]a[/I]s[h]ter [lizard]…)
Great stuff. On the part about Sin. It for sure is basically not resting(Letting your mind be full of imaginations and thoughts. Letting the fowls of the air which are the thoughts of the lower nature nest. )
In Matthew 6 Jesus was saying just that. He was pretty much saying let God feed your thoughts. Not allowing the fowls of the air who are fed to feed you. They nest in trees and trees are man.
I also lived in NC. From ’99 to 2013. I lived in Thomasville which was near Greensboro and Winston-Salem.
Wow. Everyone is, or once was, a former North Carolinian. Small world. Thanks for commenting, John. And an interesting point about the fowl nesting in the trees. I’m going to have to give that some thought.
Hi Joshua, thank you for sharing. This was a great post. I agree with what you wrote about what Paul was referring to when he wrote about “man and woman.” I agree man and woman represent the two nature’s within us.
I also enjoyed reading the discussion in the comments. Something I found very interesting is the idea of Christ and Jesus not being the same. I never looked at it like that. The way I see it, Jesus doesn’t represent a person, but salvation that is born within us.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
We know that Christ means “Anointing.” While Jesus means “YHWH’s Salvation.” So I interpret Jesus Christ as meaning “YHWH Salvation anointing.” Sometimes Paul would say we give thanks in “Christ Jesus.” Which I believe means “Giving thanks to the anointing of YHWH Salvation.”
As you might already know, I believe every character in the scriptures is us, actually characters that live within us. When the scripture says that “the Word became flesh and we beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father.”(John 1:14) I believe that the flesh that it is talking about is us, and the word is within us. So every word in scripture (every character, every town, everything) is within us. The kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:21). Again that flesh in “the word becoming flesh” is us when it says “and we beheld his glory,” we know that the glory it is talking about is Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col1:27)
When the scripture says, “she shall bring forth a son.” That she (Mary) that gives birth is us. When we let go of everything (die to ourselves, meaning letting go of the things we’ve been taught). We become virgins (made pure, aka Open-minded), and we give birth to salvation within us.
I also agree that Jesus had to go away so that Christ within us can move forward. The Jesus that had to go away is not the salvation that is born within us, but Jesus the man, the external belief of salvation. He had to go away so that we can see that it is about Christ in us and not Christ outside of us that saves us (saves us from our negative nature).
I really enjoy your posts. Thank you for sharing.
FYI Wish I could say I was from NC as well (LOL), I am From San Diego CA.
Fabian…
You have made a lot of great additional points here! First off, that every character, event, and place symbolizes something within us, which I like to think of the many divine principles gathering together throughout the narrative, building up the man, to become, as you state, that symbolic salvation (Jesus) within. Jesus is that symbol of humanity, which has been born of the virgin mind, no longer captivated and ruled by desire, but free to do the will of the Father.
I have enjoyed your writings as well. You have a unique style of explaining the symbolism in the Bible as it relates to humanity. It’s great to see other free thinkers seeking to know the kingdom within. For the sake of readers here who are interested, I’d like to share your website in the link below:
https://www.thethirdadam.com
Thanks for the comment.
You’re seriously amazing. Your work is just what the world needs right now! Such a blessing! I can’t find with your work. At all.
I missed out the word “Fault”…lol and theres no way to edit it either.
Thanks for the comments, Tracy. I’ve really enjoyed our discussions on the mind, meditation, and living in the now through e-mail.
Hi Josh,
In contrast to Robert i would say you are not going as far as i would like. 🙂
I was typing some days before but then noticed that it looked like a local conversation (NC). So i stopped at that time.
Now rereading the post and all the comments i am amazed to find how we progressed.
I would like to thank Robert for bringing out all the comments. And i concur there was flesh. As now my flesh (and yours) is being prepared for the last meal, to be consumed by Spirit. Will i then be Christ ? No i don’t think so. But i and the Father will be as one, but even so the Father is greater as is Jesus (the old soul). I am a new kid on the block.
I found traces of snakes (naga) here in Thailand. There is a lot o folkore around this theme. One custom is that when a boy becomes man he is symbolicly being transformed into a virgin snake and handed over to the Buddhist sangha (community) where the boy will stay for a perod of time. After that and being a soldier for some time the boy earns his passage into manhood.
It is imo one of the most intense rituals i was allowed to witness here in Thailand.
A remark about the words God, gods, person.
Every era has it own way to express eternal values. The words are analogies so the bystanders can get an inkling about what is being pointed to.
Thinking of a god as a persona (meaning mask) is an interesting idea. For simplicity it is convenient to call the sky heaven and the caves in the ground hell. In reality the higher spheres are multitudes, lower spheres can be multitudes.
Imo there is no God unless one means to say ‘All is ONE’ (but that is more alike Buddhism).
Lol, love your spirit, Leo. You are definitely an independent thinker. This is a great quality, which takes time for the lower personality to develop and then have confidence in. The independent thinker won’t get everything right in the beginning. In fact – maybe many things wrong. I am not speaking to you or readers with that statement, but to my own personal experience, but with time, it overcomes the falsehoods once the ego learns to get over the pain of being lied to by societal conditioning and that which we have put our faith in. We must start from a clean slate, so to speak, gathering the strength of reasoning founded upon questioning the status quo, inducing and deducing. I love doubting Thomas. He gets a bad wrap, but Jesus never accused him of ANYTHING wrong. He actually encouraged Thomas (when you understand the esoteric) and invited him to perceive of the inner Christ personally, by saying come put your hands IN me. This is an esoteric explanation of personal experience built on top of knowledge acquired from experience, which usually leads the higher intellect to question everything and anything. In fact, it is one of the 12 faculties of the mind (disciples) which is a divine quality which must develop before Christ can gather all of them.
And you are correct. I thank Robert from the bottom of my heart. He is also questioning, and I honor that, even if I disagree with his overall premise, which I consider the dead letter of the law and religion. I am also grateful for the dead letter interpretation which I believe I was once steeped in, for how could I know it’s counterpart otherwise?
Everything works out to the good of those….
You know the scripture. It means that everything, belief, lower or higher, has it’s place and season, for there is a time for it all – and this is the root and truth of knowledge itself. In such a way, whether in the end I am right or wrong, Robert had his place in my life as well, for a purpose. Had not Robert challenged me, would I have delved in so deep? Who knows. The point is the mind, just as a muscle, grows through resistance. Could the second Christ had manifested (would there have even been a second Adam) without the failure of the first? Obviously not, for today is our reality. Christians can think if only the original Adam and Eve hadn’t messed up…but that’s useless. Our reality is what it is. Fight it, and we digress. Learn from it, and consciousness expands. The meaning of life.
Blessings.
Thanks Josh,
You gave me more bones to chew on.
I have been delving around and found imo a nice analogy.
Compare the sense of smell organ between a human and a dog. Check how this works. Then compare that to the brains. I believe we can grow a better sense of smell and that would mean an improvements of the smelling organ.
If we think of our ‘brain for understanding’ to function similar (‘netting/catching an idea) than adding more synapsis might enhance our potential to ‘grasp’ new ideas. Neuroplasticity.
Changing ideas, changing neurologic structures. Head aches : lots of changing ideas. In the extreme flipflopping between extreme ideas of Life :::: give migraine.
Still to explore : “the 12 faculties of the mind’.
Warm greetings from Thailand.
Hi Josh
I enjoyed reading your post but what I enjoyed the most was one of your replies to Robert.
I paraphrase you in that you said you are seeking truth for the sake of truth rather than reward as such and that this urge becomes stronger as you become more spiritually mature. I identify with this completely.
Whoever seeks truth with sincerity will eventually find it as long as they are prepared to sacrifice their personal ego which tries to deceive us. All teachings, doctrines and other avenues to a spiritual path must be without attachment to a personal ego, i.e. “my personal belief is right and yours it wrong”, “my religion is better than yours” , etc. There is no need to convince anyone else, the truth speaks for itself. The individual’s task is to find it. We all started from some kind of doctrine or religion before breaking free, some quicker than others.
The personal ego will cloud the very thing one is searching for and take us away from the purpose of the mission. This is the veil. The truth is the TRUTH and finding it is a process and many changes and thought processes will be weighed up and changed if needed. It is the desire for truth and not self gain that breaks down the ego/veil which in turn will reveal all truth to us on our personal journey through our own experiences. The experiences that deceive us and the most painful ones are to be valued the most because once an awakening takes place, they bring the most spiritual truth, and the pain is replaced by gratitude.
Also a well learned person without the veil will recognize that the scriptures cannot be taken literally because there are so many contradictions on a physical level, impossible to distinguish which one is right. I have seen many articles trying to explain the contradictions away without any meaningful insight, just theories. Once the veil is removed all scripture becomes alive and points inwardly. When applied esoterically there are no contradictions and that is the beauty of understanding it in a more meaningful way.
btw not from NC, I’m from London 😊
Thanks Josh and kind regards
Kris, you’re comment blessed me man, thank you. Your point about the contradictions in scripture that begin to vanish as we see them esoterically / spiritually is so on point.
And good to have someone from Europe chiming in!
Hi Josh. Beautifully written article. I am learning so much. Keep up the good work. I loved reading the comments and different opinions too!
Thanks, Mom! Remember, you always taught me to question, and to allow oneself to consider the other side. Best lessons when I was younger 🙂
This is exactly what I have come to believe I just was never able to put it into words. Thank you so much for this article and please continue with more just like it.
Randy, thank you for the comment. I definitely plan to. Next article will bring in more definition of terms.
Brother please look at the new app called Clubhouse. It will be really great for this community to join it and have discussion over their as well. 🙂
As above so below, as within so without. I love that your articles emphasize the internal nature of the scriptures. This one in particular sparked so much “light” in my consciousness that it will take a bit for it to process!
One of the things I am starting to do is not only take the scriptures internally, but everything around me. You mentioned this by talking about the exoteric nature of marriage compared to the esoteric meaning. The whole world seems to be a reflection of our interior and almost like a giant puzzle, waiting for us to figure it out. This includes world events, personal relationships and everything inbetween.
Once a certain amount of awareness is achieved, events in our lives, no matter how big or small, become important, and we realize they were tailored directly for us, that is when we ask ourselves, “what was the message or lesson here?”.
Truly the mysteries of the kingdom are unraveling as we journey towards higher consciousness together in unity, and, funny enough, the answers were in the last place anyone thought to look… WITHIN! But… it’s impossible to look at yourself without using a mirror right? 😉
Thanks for the beautiful article!
Enjoyed this comment very much. Thank you for the wisdom expressed here.
Joshua Tilghman,
Greetings,
After reading your post on The Eye of Horus, I will have to admit that I am very impressed with your work and knowledge. I will also admit to you that the truth is right in front of every humans face and the ability of the ancients is present. I say this because from the darkness comes the light. Every human has the ability to connect and commune if they are capable of getting out of their own way. I myself am forever changed because of a process that was stripped from the masses. If everything is by design, which I strongly agree with, then I am living proof that the modern design of mankind is capable of attaining the spiritual reconnection with divine (sources). I will also state that within the imagination one is capable of seeing the light within the darkness.
The Eye of Horus and the Eye of Ra are 2 different things. Eye of Horus is left hand path and Eye of Ra is right hand path. Most of the celebrities, actors, politicians etc. portray the Eye of Horus left hand satanic path.
What literature and or thinking supports your opinion here?
If you considered energies of positive and negative/ good & evil, just the same as night and day. This understanding is fundamental. The Eye is both energies. The stigmatism of the understanding of the Eye of Horus and the Eye of Ra are the same. With investigation the real truth is the understanding of knowledge or wisdom concerning those energies. It is what someone BELIEVES that makes energy evident in their daily actions. As humans we have decisions that require the knowledge and wisdom of right and wrong.
Interesting your analogy of the married couple.
Which couples last the longest?
The couples where born out of true love and weren’t based on lust or other illusions.
Which is what christ embodies as well.
Like bruce lee’s quote:
“Love is like a friendship caught on fire. In the beginning a flame, very pretty, often hot and fierce, but still only light and flickering. As love grows older, our hearts mature and our love becomes as coals, deep-burning and unquenchable.”
Great article.