Let’s approach the story of Adam and Eve from the angle of the developing intellectual mind. What is the Bible inferring about the purpose the mind provides to the human soul’s evolutionary experience? We will look at some angles not covered in mainstream Christian thought. I will provide an alternative, albeit a logical framework for you as we extrapolate a contextual meaning based on symbolism. Hopefully we will spark some much needed thoughtful conversations on the importance of the intellect in relation to man’s spiritual and moral development, and why it is so vital in the soul’s progress of what we term the developing spiritual qualities or faculties latent in man.
There are some subsets of the spiritual New Age movement today which seem to demonize rational thinking. They proclaim it as antithetical to the spiritualization of man’s soul. “Stop thinking, and just be,” I have read, or, “thinking is the problem.” At the very least, popular modern gurus making such statements popular like Eckhart Tolle in the Power of Now are often taken out of context and the real essence of what he is saying has been totally subverted to the point of being ludicrous. Eckart Tolle is not saying humans need to stop thinking rationally, but rather, that most human beings DON’T think rationally, which IS the problem. Many of us are caught up in a systematic way of uncontrolled and undisciplined thought patterns which are negative, leading to much suffering. Tolle provides solutions for finding the space between this delusional systematic and automatic thinking process that can lead to a better and more intelligent, self-aware realization of the true power of thought, even if his writing doesn’t always seem to make this point clear enough.
And make no mistake. In the scripture, the horse often symbolizes the intellect. Paul was thrown off it by the blinding light of Christ in a spiritual vision on the road to Damascus. In other words, Paul’s own intellectual pride was revealed for what it was, and he was blinded, metaphorically, because his intellectual pride (which always comes before a fall, even off a horse!) symbolically revealed in the story as man’s carnal thinking process. So yes, and again, down get me wrong. Thinking is a problem for many of us. But this is because the thoughts are corrupt, not because thought and thinking in and of itself is bad!
The great mystic and spiritual writer Blavatsky once stated:
“Destroy your thoughts…go beyond mind…give up thinking…live in the realm of no-mind, not-thought and not-thinking,” they urge us, apparently unaware that we are minds and thinkers in evolution, for “mind is a term perfectly synonymous with Soul.” (H.P. Blavatsky, “Transactions of the Blavatsky Lodge” p. 29)
It is important to reiterate what Blavatsky states: “mind is a term perfectly synonymous with soul.”
It has been stated before that a true spiritual seeker should not be a cold-hearted intellectual, nor a warm-hearted anti-intellectual. There is always a balance between mind and heart. Always. And both should be developed equally alongside one another!
And what is it that corrupts thought, then, and the soul? We will now explore some possibilities. So let’s return to the Bible and try to shed some deep metaphysical knowledge on this entire subject!
In order to see Adam and Eve in their true symbolic significance, we have to set a proper foundation which challenges the mainstream Christian view. Metaphysical interpretations have existed throughout history that show Adam and Eve were not physical beings existing in a physical place, both before and after the allegorical expulsion. Rather, the emphasis is placed on what they represent as the developing mind or soul after the fall.
These metaphysical interpretations make more logical sense, even when outside sources are not consulted and we just use the Genesis text itself! Consider: it was not until after the fall from Eden that God clothed Adam and Eve with “coats of skin.”
“And unto Adam and Eve did the LORD God make coats of skin, and clothed them (Genesis 3:21).
What does it mean that they were clothed with “coats of skin.” Are these coats of skin, as mainstream Christian thought has taught us, actual animal skins, used to cover their already developed physical bodies? As we read on, we see that such an interpretation is based on illogical dogmatism.
The metaphysical scholar, G.A. Gaskell, defines the Biblical word for Coat in English as: “Symbols of mental coverings or forms of truth or error.
Gaskell also further defines the concept for Skin as Clothing as: “Symbolic of the mental, astral, or physical sheaths of the soul.”
The term“Coat “is strictly reserved for a type of “mental” covering of the spiritual soul, whereas “clothed” could be related to mental, astral (emotional), or a physical covering. Based on the context of everything we will consider in this story, when God clothed Adam and Eve, we are speaking of a mental-emotional covering for the pure spirit. With a little bit of patience, it will be shown, through scriptural evidence, that this is the case. We aren’t really talking about two individuals here, but the human soul (mind) in its rudimentary stages of development. We will find support for such reasoning, that their “coats” of “skin” had to do more with developing mind and emotion than physicality. Physicality will come in much later offspring, which we will explore in another post when I have time.
Before we show other scriptures which provide logical evidence for that stated above, let’s consider the mainstream and traditional Christian view: God killed an animal and used those skins to cover the naked physical body of Adam and Eve, as a foreshadowing of the blood sacrifice of Christ, the first blood sacrifice!
There are several problems with this interpretation. It supposes that God, as a spirit, physically slaughtered some type of animal, skinned it, and gave these skins to them as coverings. A bloody spirit indeed! One which murders the spirit of logic. Such an interpretation baffles the mind as it diminishes the idea of God as a spirit, and creates God into man’s image, something which a man does!
If the metaphysical scholar Gaskell truly understood the metaphysical mind of the early Jewish sages and his symbols are correct, then the better interpretation would be that Adam and Eve’s nakedness had nothing to do with being physically naked, but rather that they had no mental perception of “knowing” good from evil, and this IS their innocence! In order to experience “knowledge” of anything, spirit, an abstraction, needs a form, or a soul to express through. In other words, Adam and Eve were mentally and emotionally naked. Nakedness, viewed through the concept of a mental phenomenon, explains Adam and Eve’s innocence by the absence of such a condition as their eyes were not yet opened to “know.” Genesis seems to make this clear, and it is often ignored by the more literal view. For after eating of the “fruit” of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, something quite significant happened!
“And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked…” (Genesis 3:7).
In the literal interpretation of dogmatism, we are conditioned to think this was an “disobedient” act or decision that caused a fall from grace. This is silly. How can Adam and Eve make a decision to act in disobedience when they had no knowledge yet of what good and evil even were? Can a baby be held responsible for disobeying a rule from a parent when they don’t understand what a rule is? Of course not! And any sane parent wouldn’t place a rule upon a baby unless he or she knew that the child was old enough to cognize, or at least have the capacity to cognize, why such a rule is put in place if they break it. Any sane parent wouldn’t demand a one-month old not touch a stove. They would wait until the child had developed certain mental faculties to understand a parent’s demand should such laws of the household be broken.
But returning to the allegory of Adam and Eve, what caused them to “know?” Could this be a new acquired mental phenomenon?
Let’s explore further? What caused their “eyes” to be “opened?” No doubt the Genesis author attributes it to eating this fruit of the tree. But I am going to propose, as Gaskell does, that this fruit, or type of food, is a symbol of something mental, not physical. Just as physical food is sustenance for the physical body, food in the Bible is a symbol for mental phenomenon, i.e., facts and opinions and ideas, which become sustenance for the evolvong and growing mind. As we will see, the command to be “fruitful and multiply” has to do with children, sons and daughters, which are ideas (sons) and emotions (daughters) through the intercourse of man’s subjective mind with his or her objective external reality.
And how do we get from this innocence, this nakedness of not “knowing,” to “knowing something?” Was the spiritual condition of Adam and Eve a type of perfection in the realm of spirit simply because they were innocent of any content of duality?
Now let’s consider the possibility that Gaskell is correct. Eating and drinking in scripture metaphysically refers to mental phenomena. In other words, scripturally, the eating of food is a symbol for the acquisition and interplay of mental and emotional experience. In some instances, this would symbolize the human soul (mind) operating through the animal soul, and in others, operating through the spiritual soul, depending on context.
Perhaps in this light one can better understand Jesus’ commandment to eat his body and drink his blood. We are talking about assimilating Jesus’ spiritual teachings by the mind, which is why Paul says to renew one’s mind in Christ, or its regeneration according to spiritual principles. In the context of Adam and Eve, eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil means assimilating ideas and opinions and facts which can only be birthed in a world of duality, where the divergence and confluence of thought and emotion based on one’s sense perception of reality as a conscious phenomenon, allows for the building up of the mental principle, or mind in man. A child must develop his or her mind in the same way from being a newborn to an independent thinker that is consciously aware of themselves as a subjective mentality vs the objective environment.
Even Isaiah 55:2-3 states:
“Hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.”
Here, eating that which is good refers to mental ideas and concepts derived from truth, which sustains the soul (mind). In this context, eating to the “soul’s delight” would seem to imply that the “soul” is in fact referring to a type of fruitful mental perception and accumulation of good, or spiritual ideas.
To nail down the concept that eating refers to mental phenomena, one only has to look closely at the symbolism in the story of the risen Christ and the disciples on their way to Emmaus. The disciples reasoned together about what Chrit’s resurrection meant in great sadness. Jesus joined them on their walk, but their eyes were not yet opened to who he was. Jesus then reasons with them, expounding upon all the Old Testament scriptures.
“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (Luke 24: 27).
A few verses later, we have our connection with food and mental phenomenon, which has an eerily similarity with how the eyes of Adam and Eve were opened after eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
“And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took break, and blessed it, and brake, and gave it to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him…” (Luke 24: 30-31).
Did you catch the connection there? In both instances eating something resulted in “eyes” being “opened” and “knowledge” conferred! There is no awareness or major shift in mentality until the food is somehow involved. This should clue anyone in to the fact that the food is just symbolic of an inner psychological process.
In this story of Luke, it wasn’t until after the disciples ate bread with Jesus that their eyes were opened, and they came to mentally perceive who Jesus was as the risen Christ. Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and their eyes were also opened. But there’s a difference. In both cases the opening of the eyes means that they mentally perceived, or “came to know something. However, and here’s the kicker: the first incident relates to external knowledge; the second incident relates to internal knowledge. And now think about the statement of Christ, that the Kingdom of God is within you!
So why do I say internal knowledge? It is because the disciples, symbolizing “disciplined” attributes of the human soul or mind, unlike the earlier Adam and Eve, were able to perceive the truth of who Jesus was as the Christ simply because they were soul qualities that had been called out, chosen, and disciplined to such a degree by the spirit’s influence that were able to see clearly that true bread (or truth) from heaven (higher, spiritual mind). This doesn’t mean that they received enlightenment. It simply means that they could perceive something of the truth that they didn’t cognize before.
Another similar incident is told in John chapter twenty-one, where they dined together and “knew” it was the Lord.
Let’s look at a few symbols again with a little more detail and the authority of Gaskell.
Now as soon as Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, “…the eyes of both of them were opened…” (Genesis 3:7).
Gaskell defines the term for Eye, or Eyesight as: “A symbol of mental perception. Discernment of ideas and feelings as externalities of consciousness.”
So as the “eye” in scripture signifies mental perception, the ability of mind, eating food after seeing it means to sustain the mind and inform it with the nutrition of ideas, whether those ideas relate to truths or errors. Remember, Jesus stated that if the “eye” (not eyes) was single, then the whole body is full of light. So many metaphysical correlations here!
We can also infer from Genesis 3:7 that before man’s eyes were opened, there was no mental sustenance or discernment of ideas and feelings. In other words, there was no self awareness, or personal consciousness, or an individualized mind to contain them and produce personal choice. And this is the reason for their nakedness, or mental innocence. Without “self-consciousness” and personal choice, there is an innocence of mentality. Therefore Adam and Eve did not KNOW the DIFFERENCE between good and evil. This is another way of saying that there was not a self-aware mental nature to distinguish between concepts, facts, opinions, ideas, etc.
Let’s break this down a little further as it also makes sense in relation to another scripture:
“And when the woman saw that tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise…” (Genesis 3:6)
Now according to Gaskell, if the eye symbolizes a discernment of ideas and feelings as externalities of consciousness, we can understand why the scripture directly above emphasizes the concept of desire through Eve’s direction of her “eye” (or mental desire) on the fruit.
Now one could say, wait a minute, if Adam and Eve were still innocent of mental sustenance, how could Eve have desire before she ate? Does the six-month old baby have any desire before he or she develops responsible, self-aware thought? Of course not! But the undeveloped mind is still active in this desire, for a six-month old baby still has a desire to be fed and held, even though it might not be a self-conscious choice, but rather a blind instinct, but quite active in the instinct of bodily feeling. In Genesis, we also have a similar desire-mind instinct crawling around the Garden:
Gaskell defines the serpent as: “A symbol of the desire-mind, which is more penetrative and captivating to the ego than any of the lower desires (beasts of the field).
Eve was captivated by the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil by instinct, not personal, self-conscious choice. And I propose that this “instinct” is the intelligence of the spirit’s unfoldment beyond self-conscious choice. We can therefore plainly see that Eve was deceived, not because she “knew” better, as a choice between something right or wrong, but because she was blind to an instinctive element which she herself represents as a motive to experience life.
As we study the nature of the intellect, we are going to see why this process, as it is explained allegorically, was necessary. The great mystic Blavatsky once stated that the intellect is developed at the expense of the spirit. This is a very important concept to understand. At first it sounds negative, but it is an important part of spiritual evolution, as the universal mind must first experience an allegorical “fall” into the lower aspect of matter to develop a self-conscious awareness so that THAT universal mind, as an individuated experience of spirit (man!), can rise again as a self-consciously aware spiritual entity! It is simply one of the aspects inherent in consciousness that unfolds in degrees and stages according to universal law.
This is a process whereas to “self-realize,” the infinite potential of spirit as an abstraction, or conscious fiction, has to walk out and realizes its potential becoming actual, by manifesting it through FORM as a self-aware, conscious soul, i.e., the human soul, or mind. The allegory of the fall explains then, metaphysically, that the first great sacrifice of spirit in a world of form was in order to express, or actualize its qualities. These qualities start out as divine ideation, or divine potential, but they are manifested through forms (matter), i.e., psychically, mentally, and spiritually as truly actualized souls. Adam and Eve then, with their fall, symbolize the development of that self-conscious individuated entity. The story of the risen Christ and the disciples on the way to Emmaus symbolize a further step of this process, as the mental faculty rising to understand, and perceive, life in the spiritual soul, which is above the thinking mind, and with which the the thinking mind has to link itself to. But just because it is beyond the thinking mind in degree, doesn’t mean that the thinking mind is dissolved or done away with. It still functions, but is now imbued with a more spiritual overview and understanding of the bigger picture.
This also explains the necessity of the lower mind experiencing its false personal self in the lower realms of matter. It has to TRANSCEND these limitations, or illusions, in order to KNOW itself.
Do we now understand that God is a God of becoming? I AM THAT I AM means, when more correctly translated, I become that which I BECOME. As a man thinketh in his heart (Ne’Fesh – the vitality of life principle, Eve), he or she BECOMES.
Let me repeat this important concept that is taught by Blavatsky and Gaskell and many other great metaphysicians of the world over: the thinking principle, i.e., our bundle of moral, ethical, and mental attributes, must cement itself to true spiritual intelligence, which then immortalizes its essence. The lower personal and thinking mind dies at physical death if it does not accomplish this process. In other words, and as Jesus said, in order to save one’s soul, one must lose it. What he means is that one’s personal thoughts and desires predicated upon carnal thinking rooted in selfishness must be given up for the sake of the spiritual soul within. In other words, the personal, egoic lower mind of personal selfish desire must be paralyzed, so that the spiritual influx of the higher mind can influence it, thereby resurrecting it to its true stature. Practices like meditation, concentration, and contemplation aid in paralyzing the lower thinking principle which is filled with carnality and thoughts that seek personal gratification. And now we may understand truly why even Eckart Tolle states that the personal thinking mind is an affliction which is hard to stop. His words for finding the free space in between personal thinking predicated upon the personal self is uncontrolled and undisciplined runaway thought that forms systematic destructive behavioral patterns of grasping the lower or carnal mind’s continued existence. True intellect, true intelligence, takes an influx of spiritual understanding, which is really nothing else than that which is predicated upon the universal truths and the laws of nature, the TRUE TORAH, or LAW, which involves all life and evolution of mental and spiritual faculties becoming established in the individual life of experience. When I state true law and Torah, I am speaking of all the ancient scriptures which ALL teach the same thing when understand in their esoteric significance beyond the dead letter of the law, or literal interpretations.
Now the bigger picture of the entire story of Adam and Eve begins to make more logical sense. The element of desire, as symbolized by the serpent, in conjunction with Eve, is already inherent in the innocence of Adam and Eve, and this paradise called Eden. Desire in and of itself is not evil. It is only when it combines with the rudimentary aspects of the mind (the serpent, or desire-mind) that desire, in conjunction with a personally aware ego, takes a spiritual negative turn. Desire manifests itself in the animal kingdom as pure instinct, but with man, through “thinking, self-reflection, and proper reasoning,” it can begin to rise again in conjunction with its spiritual origin and begin to function as the internal organ of the developing spiritual man. And this is why Moses and the prophets must come first, before Elijah (the higher emotions) and culminating in Jesus Christ.
Now, the practice of meditation is important as the process of paralyzing the lower egoic mind so that the soul can liberate itself from Egypt, or sensual pleasure and the attachments of such conditioning. However, and just as important, is balancing this with the heart where we view Jesus’ statements as the law being summed up on loving thy neighbor as thyself. There is then a balance between the “emotional” and “intellectual” aspect of the mind. Or, in other words, by loving others and the world at large, we are also in the process of paralyzing the personal desires which give us what we want only. But can we think that none of this takes “personal effort on our part? Our personal efforts ARE the process of denying the personal self to live for other. And understanding this spiritual process is where the intellect truly begins to shine once it realizes its need for cementing itself to our true spiritual natures, the eternal part of us. True intelligence is never prideful. It is that which understands the need to incorporate all of nature as part of the divine ideation for the evolution of all individuals in experience in relation to one another.
Adam and Eve falling from grace produces Cain and Abel. The two opposing lines of development, although both have their place. One centered in spiritual aspiration, the other in personal desire.
We will end here and take up part two going into some deeper aspects of Adam and Eve and what they represent as humanity.
So if God is constantly becoming, then God cannot be omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and cannot be the Alpha and Omega, where all that can be created has been created? 😉
I cant find where you answered me even though it came up on my email. So I will leave your reply here and answer it.
Hi Tracy…
This is correct. The concept we associate as “God” as from the limited intellect, could NEVER be this. This is why the concept that we associate as God is not God at all. God is not a being, a thought, an emotion, or a form of any kind, because all that is limited to being THAT. What then is God, as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient concept? It cannot be any concept of anything. For any concept whatsoever would limit it, whatever we call “it.” If you tell me God is “infinite,” well I can only intellectually comprehend that as the contrast to “finite.” And that’s still a duality. Why? Because the human mind cannot really comprehend infinity, except as this: it is paradoxically both at the same time, and this is true ONENESS. Both spirit (the eternal abstraction), and form (the finite of that abstraction), are both ONE, and we will be forever grasping this equilibrium which can NEVER be obtained, which explains the ongoing e-motive for an ever-ending journey of conscious unfolding, from universe to universe, the great out-breath to in-breath, in an eternal ever-moving cycle. But the cycles are the finite aspect, and the eternal cycles of this finite aspect are its infinity. And they are both one as an inherent property. Think of the transcendental aspect of the mathematical expression of PI. Externally, it appears finite when experienced through the senses, but internally, it is ongoing, in perpetuity.
So what do the terms omnipresent, omniscient, or omnipotent really mean, to us? They mean NOTHING, because they are abstractions, and can never be defined in any way. Certainly not with language. But only “cognized” in degrees of variation according to the experience, which is all limited. And so for us, as finite beings, God, or that concept, is always BECOMING. So the only true God is the truly unmanifest, which excludes you or I consciously having this conversation now. Anything manifested is a limited form, from the highest spiritual beings to lowest mineral. But there is one idea which comes close to it, although never fully understanding it. And this is that God is simply the law itself, which produces by its own inherent nature the periods of manifestation and that which absorbs all manifestation, and the periodic balance between those states.
Can a law of periodicity, which the human intellect could call unconscious, produce conscious beings? And even that is silly and limited, for if it does, then one has to conclude, again, paradoxically, that inherent within this law is both conscious and unconscious. This is why the ancient wisdom literature uses such terms as the highest law being described as the “rootless root,” or the “causeless cause.”
But as it relates to US, as limited beings, God is always “BECOMING.” And it will always be this way, whether you are a fully enlightened human, or not. There will always be a period of growth, and as I repeat in my former article, the rabbit hole NEVER ends, which IS the truly infinite aspect of BEING, which is ALWAYS BECOMING 🙂
How could it be any other way. The journey must never end, or all the entire universes would cease to exist, and you would be nothing 🙂
My reply. It is the realm of Effect that is always in a state of becoming Josh. Not Cause. Cause aka Consciousness or God is quite clearly stated in the bible and zillions of other texts as being the 3 omni’s as well as the Alpha and the Omega – meaning the beginning and end of all creation, that is everywhere all at once, all knowing and all powerful – that is infinite and eternal. Moreover you are not meant to grasp this with the thinking mind but the being mind. Moreover to say you must THINK your way to enlightenment goes against all teaching that I have ever come across from those that have achieved Enlightenment. It is always with the being mind – meditation – that Enlightenment is experienced. Perhaps this is why you cannot see past your concepts….
“Moreover you are not meant to grasp this with the thinking mind but the being mind.”
Thank you Tracy for this enlightening conversation…
But I still have to posit…becoming the “being mind” as you state, is still and act of you “becoming” that, from a prior state of not being that, correct?
And becoming the being mind is still a state which cognizes that BEINGNESS. And even this is still a state of that which “realizes” it is that, which still takes one aspect being aware of that which it IS. This is the SELF becoming aware of the not Self, which is transitioning from one state of conscious perception to another. So the process is still rooted in a duality, and even that process remains as an eternal of ever expanding potentiality, received through degrees. This is what is truly meant by Blavatsky as the higher mind experiencing the past and future as a present actuality. But even this state of realization takes a process of Manas through Atma/Buddhi. YOU and I are the MANAS which receives the individuated aspect of pure spirit, the eternal abstraction, as an eternal process of ever becoming.
“Moreover to say you must THINK your way to enlightenment goes against all teaching that I have ever come across from those that have achieved Enlightenment. It is always with the being mind – meditation – that Enlightenment is experienced. Perhaps this is why you cannot see past your concepts….”
No one can “think” their way to enlightenment. The act of “thinking” is a lower process of manas, as a reflection of the higher mind.
But as Blavatsky also says, all action is from the prior accumulation of thought. No action, no matter how great or small, is produced without prior thought. The action of a pure meditative life must have come through the avenue of prior thought, which is an accumulation of prior personal thinking, which leads one to the condition of “realizing” that thinking has it limits, and one seeks to go beyond rationalizing everything. Everything in the great LAW of being builds from prior states and past lives.
Hi Tracy…
This is correct. The concept we associate as “God” as from the limited intellect, could NEVER be this. This is why the concept that we associate as God is not God at all. God is not a being, a thought, an emotion, or a form of any kind, because all that is limited to being THAT. What then is God, as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient concept? It cannot be any concept of anything. For any concept whatsoever would limit it, whatever we call “it.” If you tell me God is “infinite,” well I can only intellectually comprehend that as the contrast to “finite.” And that’s still a duality. Why? Because the human mind cannot really comprehend infinity, except as this: it is paradoxically both at the same time, and this is true ONENESS. Both spirit (the eternal abstraction), and form (the finite of that abstraction), are both ONE, and we will be forever grasping this equilibrium which can NEVER be obtained, which explains the ongoing e-motive for an ever-ending journey of conscious unfolding, from universe to universe, the great out-breath to in-breath, in an eternal ever-moving cycle. But the cycles are the finite aspect, and the eternal cycles of this finite aspect are its infinity. And they are both one as an inherent property. Think of the transcendental aspect of the mathematical expression of PI. Externally, it appears finite when experienced through the senses, but internally, it is ongoing, in perpetuity.
So what do the terms omnipresent, omniscient, or omnipotent really mean, to us? They mean NOTHING, because they are abstractions, and can never be defined in any way. Certainly not with language. But only “cognized” in degrees of variation according to the experience, which is all limited. And so for us, as finite beings, God, or that concept, is always BECOMING. So the only true God is the truly unmanifest, which excludes you or I consciously having this conversation now. Anything manifested is a limited form, from the highest spiritual beings to lowest mineral. But there is one idea which comes close to it, although never fully understanding it. And this is that God is simply the law itself, which produces by its own inherent nature the periods of manifestation and that which absorbs all manifestation, and the periodic balance between those states.
Can a law of periodicity, which the human intellect could call unconscious, produce conscious beings? And even that is silly and limited, for if it does, then one has to conclude, again, paradoxically, that inherent within this law is both conscious and unconscious. But this is what it does! And is! This is why the ancient wisdom literature uses such terms as the highest law being described as the “rootless root,” or the “causeless cause.”
But as it relates to US, as limited beings, God is always “BECOMING.” And it will always be this way, whether you are a fully enlightened human, or not. There will always be a period of growth, and as I repeat in my former article, the rabbit hole NEVER ends, which IS the truly infinite aspect of BEING, which is ALWAYS BECOMING 🙂
How could it be any other way. The journey must never end, or all the entire universes would cease to exist, and you would be nothing 🙂
Psalm 139 – God Is Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.- Revelation 22:13
In my opinion your concepts are based on an assumption. The assumption you know the purpose for life – and no one knows that. You assume (as is typicla of the ego) that we are here to LEARN – to become MORE MORE MORE. I think that is a serious mistake to make. What if we are not here to learn but to remember who we truly are? What if we are here merely to bring the fullness of our true Being to light in the physical? What if we are merely here to enjoy and love life? Love is the reason for all being.
I dont know why your replies arent showing up for me here. I am reading them on my email so once again I will post your reply and then mine.
You: “Moreover you are not meant to grasp this with the thinking mind but the being mind.”
Thank you Tracy for this enlightening conversation…
But I still have to posit…becoming the “being mind” as you state, is still and act of you “becoming” that, from a prior state of not being that, correct?
And becoming the being mind is still a state which cognizes that BEINGNESS. And even this is still a state of that which “realizes” it is that, which still takes one aspect being aware of that which it IS. This is the SELF becoming aware of the not Self, which is transitioning from one state of conscious perception to another. So the process is still rooted in a duality, and even that process remains as an eternal of ever expanding potentiality, received through degrees. This is what is truly meant by Blavatsky as the higher mind experiencing the past and future as a present actuality. But even this state of realization takes a process of Manas through Atma/Buddhi. YOU and I are the MANAS which receives the individuated aspect of pure spirit, the eternal abstraction, as an eternal process of ever becoming.
“Moreover to say you must THINK your way to enlightenment goes against all teaching that I have ever come across from those that have achieved Enlightenment. It is always with the being mind – meditation – that Enlightenment is experienced. Perhaps this is why you cannot see past your concepts….”
No one can “think” their way to enlightenment. The act of “thinking” is a lower process of manas, as a reflection of the higher mind.
But as Blavatsky also says, all action is from the prior accumulation of thought. No action, no matter how great or small, is produced without prior thought. The action of a pure meditative life must have come through the avenue of prior thought, which is an accumulation of prior personal thinking, which leads one to the condition of “realizing” that thinking has it limits, and one seeks to go beyond rationalizing everything. Everything in the great LAW of being builds from prior states and past lives.
My reply: Yes the thinking mind as evolution has clearly pointed out – leads to the being mind, just as the physical reactionary body led to the inclusion of the mental realm – such is life. The being must be embodied if one is to know the higher mysteries beyond the caravan of thought. All thinking, like all computer programmes have been downloaded via The One true Soul, through the Incarnate Soul and then into the human mind. The body has no life of its own so cannot think what it does not know. It only knows what awareness wants it to know. The conscious mind of course lives in illusion, so evolution is a slow arduous process. The way you have written it, we are living from the outside in rather than the inside out. You are basically saying that all realms become informed through the lived experience of the physical body. That the physical life is informing the astral and then the prana and then karma and so on and so forth. This does not make sense. Moreover, it goes against nearly every teaching I can think of.
The Incarnate Soul is a vessel for the One true Soul/Spirit and it is the One true Soul/Spirit that moulds the Incarnate Soul like a potter moulds clay. How can it be any other way? It cannot. The Monad as you like to call it Josh, or the Godhead, is forever moulding and shaping the Incarnate Soul that in turn shapes the physical body to take more of the fullness of its being in every incarnation, so that eventually the fullness of true being is seen on earth (Consciousness) as it is in heaven (Consciousness).
Right thinking has its place. The correct understanding of metaphysical principles and ontological understanding is imperative, but it only leads one to the well. Once there all thinking, all concepts, all ideas of this that and the other must be given over for the being mind which is the true instrument of Spirit.
You assume (as is typicla of the ego) that we are here to LEARN – to become MORE MORE MORE. I think that is a serious mistake to make. What if we are not here to learn but to remember who we truly are? What if we are here merely to bring the fullness of our true Being to light in the physical? What if we are merely here to enjoy and love life? Love is the reason for all being.
I want to emphasize a statement here: What if we are here merely to bring the fullness of our true Being to light in the physical?
So then if we bring that state of what we are into the physical, isn’t that some kind of growth, to become aware of a deeper state, which would add to what we are? I am confused.
Your reply: You assume (as is typicla of the ego) that we are here to LEARN – to become MORE MORE MORE. I think that is a serious mistake to make. What if we are not here to learn but to remember who we truly are? What if we are here merely to bring the fullness of our true Being to light in the physical? What if we are merely here to enjoy and love life? Love is the reason for all being.
I want to emphasize a statement here: What if we are here merely to bring the fullness of our true Being to light in the physical?
So then if we bring that state of what we are into the physical, isn’t that some kind of growth, to become aware of a deeper state, which would add to what we are? I am confused.
My reply: Well of course you are confused because you identify as form – or at best the Incarnate Soul which is APPEARS to be learning. But you are not the physical body are you – nor are you the Incarnate Soul which is merely a vessel for the One true Spirit/Soul or Awareness being the Activity of Consciousness.
Conscious Awareness is everything. Even clay – the potters delight is conscious Awareness and the ultimate principle of Conscious Awareness is the three omni’s and the Alpha and the Omega. One is merely forming Effect to be in the same likeness as Cause. Man was born in the image of Spirit. Spirit which is complete in and of itself. Therefore the image after millions of years of evolution will eventually become the true image of Spirit.
Just as it takes 20 odd years to bring our own sons up in the physical, so it is with Spirit. It takes millions of years as we evolve through effect or matter to come into the fullness of our being – a being born in the image of our true Self in and of Spirit being Soul or Consciousness being Awareness depending on ones terminology.
But our sons always bring a new element to life, a new generation, new ideals, predicated upon the parent, but exploring more than the parent was in different ways. 🙂
“Man was born in the image of Spirit. Spirit which is complete in and of itself. Therefore the image after millions of years of evolution will eventually become the true image of Spirit.”
And then what happens? Does everything end? Or does it choose to forget it all and become unconscious again and do it all over? Your premise suggests that it is all finite in the end, and there is one evolutionary journey which ends in a finality, only to start over again to another finality. And is this what you are saying is the eternal nature of the law, to begin and end at the same point, forever?
Your reply: “Man was born in the image of Spirit. Spirit which is complete in and of itself. Therefore the image after millions of years of evolution will eventually become the true image of Spirit.”
And then what happens? Does everything end? Or does it choose to forget it all and become unconscious again and do it all over? Your premise suggests that it is all finite in the end, and there is one evolutionary journey which ends in a finality, only to start over again to another finality. And is this what you are saying is the eternal nature of the law, to begin and end at the same point, forever?
My reply: This world is a dream world as has been described by many noteable people Josh. I suppose once one dream ends another begins. Effect as you know is ever changing – it is constant in that change. Cause as you also know is the complete opposite. It is still and silent, always in all ways. I am not foolish enough to claim to know the meaning of life – no one in any metaphysical circle claims to know it – though a few will hazard a guess. My guess is love for love (Soul) is the expression of true Intelligence (Spirit).
Furthermore and I find this most disturbing of all is that you rarely mention the present moment….The Now,….which is cornerstone to all ontological principles and practices. Anything outside the Now is a mental concept and mental concepts are not real.
Your reply: But our sons always bring a new element to life, a new generation, new ideals, predicated upon the parent, but exploring more than the parent was in different ways. 🙂
Mine: With all due respect my friend, the idea that Effect has anything to teach Cause is ridiculous.
Your reply” And becoming the being mind is still a state which cognizes that BEINGNESS. And even this is still a state of that which “realizes” it is that, which still takes one aspect being aware of that which it IS. This is the SELF becoming aware of the not Self, which is transitioning from one state of conscious perception to another.
My reply: It says quite clearly in the bible not to take thought and to live by faith alone – Faith being a knowing what to do say and think in any given moment without having to take thought for it. Not only do I know this to be true in many metaphysical works, I know it to be true by experience and you know that I know from the copious emails we have shared. The being mind stays unleavened – it stays as a single thought that marries our Awareness of being subconsciously. When the two minds are working together as one harmoniously, they become a channel for the true and One Soul/Spirit.
The conscious mind (Our I am-ness) that IS thought alone, rises in itself – so it is consciousness + consciousness = maya or illusion. We are mistaking consciousness for awareness which are two completely different things. Awareness is the activity of consciousnesss or Soul is the body of Spirit. Ones subconscious awareness (which is where the manger is or the birth place of the Christ is well documented. This Awareness of mind leads to and merges with the true Awareness of Soul which is embodied by the One Conscious or Spirit. Consciousness + Awareness = the Christ or Buddhi which is a channel that leads to the merging of the Incarnate Soul with the One true Soul/Spirit.
Consciousness + consciousness = thinking….the mental realm for the conscious mind is thought only.
Consciousness + Awareness = Being – the meditative mind. Awareness is the essence of being or meditation.
Tracy, thanks for your reply…
You state: “It says quite clearly in the bible not to take thought and to live by faith alone –”
If I may ask, what verses are you using?
You are suggesting two things here: 1) We live by faith alone, and 2) the Bible says “take no thought.”
Let’s deal with the first one:
James 2:24 states, “You see that a man is justified by works, and not faith alone.”
I think you may have picked up your idea based on Romans 3:28 in which Paul states, “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.”
Both of these scriptures seem contradictory when taken out of context and not understanding their esoteric significance. James is giving you the bigger picture, whereas works are evidence of your faith. Paul is speaking to the pharisee mindset of literal dogmatism, in which man tried to prove his righteousness by a strict adherence to the Torah “outwardly,” instead of “inwardly,” as Christ made clear.
As I also alluded to, the modern English translation doesn’t really do well in explaining Paul’s meaning of the word faith, or the Greek word Pistas. Pistas was never meant to convey a belief in something blind, but simply the acceptance and knowledge of the system of nature which evolves the soul, or i.e., knowledge to be a co-worker with the one universal law that governs spiritual evolution, and knowing that everything put in our path should be accepted because it is exactly what we need to grow.
As to your second point about the Bible saying take “no thought,” if you are taking this statement from Jesus’ words you have to read the rest, meaning take no though for the “morrow,” or putting emphasis on the physical material existence with worry and angst. In other words, one must learn to be content in all the workings of the law, and know it has a purpose, so even in the midst of joy or suffering, never worry, because worrying can do nothing to change it. So in actuality this statement is teaching us not to take thought connected with the lower personality in a state of anxiety.
Matthew 6:25-33
King James Version
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
And
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith,[a] as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”[b] – Romans 1:17
Now apart from my partial experience of being, I have studied all those who have achieved Enlightenment from the Oriental to the Occidental – all round the world and they all have one thing in common. They developed the being mind aka the meditative mind. The definition of meditation is the expulsion of thought or rather the discerning mind for mind or consciousness IS thought – however it must remain single so that it can merge with our subconscious Awareness of being that in turn marries our true Awareness, which is our One true Soul. A mind that is continually rising in itself takes itself out of Awareness which is the essence of meditation. The two minds (conscious and subconscious) coming together is what creates the Channel that intuits Spirit. Before this time the conscious mind is like a branch cut off from the vine. It rises in and of itself to create an illusion of reality rather than reality itself. The Holy Ghost aka Intuition can only truly be heard when the mind has settled down into a quiet silent quiescent and receptive channel. This is because the conscious mind is rising in Consciousness, rather than Awareness – its true Self that is forever in the moment – forever in the NOW. This is why Jesus said, of myself I do nothing, it is the Father in me that does the work. Rather than acting from the realm of mentalism and duality we act from the Spiritual Realm of Oneness, when we hold a meditative mind. Once intuition has been received, the lower mind analyses and translates this intuition – this knowing – this FAITH into knowledge so that it can be taken up by the subconscious and manifested into the world of physicality. Evolution sees us moving from being merely a physical being to being a mental/physical being to being a physical/mental/spiritual being.
Right thinking ultimately, being the path to Enlightenment requires the mind to be meditative. Not morally doing what you think is right, which is what you are suggesting in your post. The latter idea is no better than the orthodox Christians you are breaking away from. That does what THEY BELIEVE INDIVIDUALLY, to be the right moral thing to do. This sets brother against brother as we all have different ideas of right and wrong. Moreover, you are still seeking your truth from the tree of knowledge (mentalism) rather than the tree of Life.(spiritualism). You will never gain the experience of BEING Spirit if you are continually thinking. The minute you stop thinking you start being. The minute you start being you stop thinking. The two states cannot coexist. That moment you had by the lake Josh – where you thinking? Or were you simply just aware?
Thanks, Tracy, again for the comment.
You state: Not morally doing what you think is right, which is what you are suggesting in your post. The latter idea is no better than the orthodox Christians you are breaking away from. That does what THEY BELIEVE INDIVIDUALLY, to be the right moral thing to do. This sets brother against brother as we all have different ideas of right and wrong.”
Ah, I see where you have missed my point, and maybe I didn’t make it clear enough in the post, but I shall try to be more clear now.
What I believe individually, according to man’s, societal laws, religious laws, the government, politically, materialist science, etc., is not what I am speaking of. These are all “personal” lower manas thinking ideas which the personality can get caught up in, and therefore can makes mistakes if it serves an egoic structure. I am speaking of universal laws, which we all are seeking to understand, such as “Do unto your neighbor what you would have them to do unto you,” or consider another over yourself. For people such as you and I, which would agree with this universal principle, it transcends the limitations of the limited personal ego which seeks to manipulate others or a situation for one’s own gratification. I am not speaking of “thought” that would seek to fortify the personal nature. I am speaking of meditation and contemplation on truth for truth’s sake, which can only be rooted in selfless seeking and faith. Just because one has a selfless motivation doesn’t mean one will instantly acquire the workings of all of nature, etc. This happens in degrees as we switch our “grasping” from selfish concepts to selfless universal concepts that unite every experience into ONE aspect of unfolding consciousness.
Also, did you consider what James states in James 2:24 stated earlier. Why? Why is this stated? We must seek to not gloss over these things if they are there, but to delve into what seem like contradictions, and this will take some deep insight and thought. Perhaps even meditation. As Elizabeth pointed out in the former article, these are not fruitless efforts, but builds each thing upon another, and higher states of understanding will come in due time 🙂
You still dont understand Josh. The individual mind must merge with the collective or we will forever be a branch cut off from the Vine. Personal thinking does that – no matter how highfalutin it is. No matter how altruistic. It is still consciousness rising outside of the Awareness aka Soul. It is still a branch cut off from the vine. You are being led by mentalism – the mental realm as opposed to the Spiritual realm which IS Awareness being Consciousness. The conscious mind is a branch cut off from the vine until it has merged with it the Awareness of both the individual and collective Soul that is forever in the NOW. The Conscious mind is absolutely incapable of living in the Now unless it is still and meditative. The moment the mind rises or becomes unleavened, it rises out of the moment where its true body is and into illusion or Maya. This is why Buddhists continually tell us to lose the discerning mind which is the same as saying we must lose the thinking mind, so that we may assimilate with the true Soul or Buddhi as you call it. The true Soul is not a thinker but a knower. Faith means knowing. Ones true Soul is omniscient – all knowing. I dont know how many times I have been in the moment and known what to do intuitively without having to reason it out at all. The right words, the right action comes to me and leads me to the correct thing to say do think or be.
The meditative mind is also a safeguard for how many of us fool ourselves into thinking something is true when it is not true? ALL THE TIME! I dont know how many people in my group believe they are enlightened when they are not – they think they are but thinking is not being. And so their journey stagnates there – stuck in mentalism and we all know we cannot teach someone something they think they already know.
Think of it in the lowest terms possible. What happens when the mind and body are not present in the moment? The mind is off on its own tangent – in another room, country or planet to the body. This is not reality. This is daydreaming. The mind must stay in the same room as the body in order to experience reality. So it is with your consciousness and awareness. So it is in all realms of being. The law of gender operates on all realm of effect.
You have a different idea of what is altruistic to another. That sets one brother against another immediately. The One mind now lives in separation. We must be of the same mind, the same mind that was in and of Christ. This can only be done with ones conscious mind rises in its own body of Awareness that is present in the eternal NOW and not rising in consciousness which it mistakes for awareness. Consciousness + consciousness = illusion or daydreaming. Consciousness + Awareness = reality – NOW.
All Spiritual practices…all ontological principles operate in and of the present moment – THE NOW. You cannot be in the now when taking thought, no matter how elevated you think that thought is.
The conscious mind constitutes approximately 5% of our mind, the rest is the subconscious which is 95%. This gives us a good indication of how the mind should be used. We should be sitting in the meditative mind whose essence is awareness 90% of the time, listening for or embodying intuition. The other 5% of our time is used to turn knowing into knowledge. Thinking most certainly has its place in our being but a much smaller place of being than it is now, which is 95% thinking while being (if that) 5% of the time. One should be led spiritually, not from the mental realm, which is where you are being led from. Not to say you dont receive intuition, just that it is an unconscious act rather than conscious.
Sometimes like Eckhart Tolle and Sri Ramana Maharshi one can think their way to a meditative mind by studying first principles and making sense of them, however that thinking is a lot of the time unconsciously intuited from on high and always in all ways leads to the being mind.
Tracy…
You state: You still dont understand Josh. The individual mind must merge with the collective or we will forever be a branch cut off from the Vine.”
Um, I actually agree with this statement, and what the entire post was about. Here me out. We do that though in stages according to evolutionary law. Remember, I stated that the lower mind must cement itself to the higher, which is the divine marriage. Where we disagree is that you do not think this is possible through any type of ethics or morality, because you are assuming this is only a morality or ethics based off of personal attributes conceived of by lower manas thinking. Let me divulge, if I may, a very important concept in esoteric literature which explains the lower principles beyond which you are conveying (and I mean no disrespect, truly). I will a theosophists…
“After a lifetime comes to an end, all the truly spiritual, noble, pure, and good, qualities and attributes of that now defunct personal self become assimilated by and part of this Reincarnating Ego, the soul. The qualities, attributes, and characteristics which were of a personal nature – not by any means necessarily “bad” but simply attached to the earthly being in a way that is not completely selfless and altruistic – do not dissolve into oblivion but will go to form the skandhas, this being a Buddhist term used in Theosophy for the traits, tendencies, and characteristics, which comprise our personal self in a particular lifetime.
We can – and hopefully are! – improving the colouring and “flavour” of our skandhas as we go through life. Whether we make them better or worse, this in turn will have significant bearing on what our personal self is like in the next incarnation. This is an important part of Karma, the law of cause and effect, action and reaction, sequence and consequence, sowing and reaping.”
In my personal opinion, this is very important to understand. And as to people who claim enlightenment, I would never do such a thing 🙂
Yes it is true that the only thing to survive earthly incarnation is Love – love being our true body. However how did that love come into being? How did we learn such love? Through experience yes but within that experience is Awareness made conscious. You believe that the body and mind in the physical have a life of their own – that through its own experiences we learn and then (and this is the crazy part) we inform the higher realms which is completely backwards.
You imagine there is a thinker behind your egoic thoughts, but there isn’t – there are only thoughts of a thinker. How can there be a thinker behind said thoughts if ones conscious mind is still like a branch cut off from the vine? You believe you can think your way to being awareness? Yes you do. You believe that by the conscious mind rising in itself (thought – for that is all the conscious mind is, is thought) that it will somehow find its way to its own body of Awareness. This is illusion – this is Maya. Illusion does not survive the physical incarnation. For example, the love we have for each other, for our family and friends – is it real love or is it human love? Do we not place conditions of love on all of them? Yes we do. If they were to treat us badly, even our most closest, then a tear in the relationship seeing it come to an end often happens. People ALWAYS confuse true thought and true love for human thoughts and human love.
The human mind and body is just like a computer – preprogrammed and completely deterministic. The mind cannot think anything new of itself until it has an awareness to do so. That awareness does not come from the outside world but our inner world. If you truly believe there is a thinker behind your thoughts, then I dare you to trace your personal thoughts (outside intuition) back to its Source and you will see there is no Soul there directing it – not Consciousness there directing it. It is simply the conscious mind rising in and of itself – akin to a run away train with no driver. You are not your thoughts and feelings Josh but the Awareness behind them. Your thoughts and feeling will only become authentic when the Christ mind has risen. Until those thoughts and feelings are resting in peace – in singularity, you will never come to be conscious of this Awareness of being. You are confusing consciousness with Awareness. Just as the mind has a body, so does Consciousness and Awareness is that body. You must become conscious of being awareness and you cannot do that with the discerning or thinking mind. You must embody meditation as the true mind. Rupert Spira explains it quite nicely here only he calls it being aware of being awareness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hmMugiqGg&t=518s
However by all means, think you way to enlightenment and see where it gets you 😉 Evolution has led us to this point – going from an animal (physical realm) to the mental realm (mind) in which we learned to use the mind which brought us ever closer to our true Self. Now our evolutionary tale is asking us to adopt a meditative mind, to pray without ceasing. To keep the mind unleavened in awareness, and to live by Faith which is intuition.
Hi Tracy,, and Josh too,
this was a prodigious conversation, and I am so glad I came upon it. I appreciate both of your inputs and understanding of the concepts. As much as I have found tremendous value in reading Josh’s work, Tracy, you have appealed to my intuition, and helped me to better grasp the material. Both You and Josh, have helped me along my path.
Thanks Josh
very refreshing !
Glad you enjoyed it, Leo. The manna from heaven is better explained in the context as well, which I didn’t include in the article, but just thought about it. Maybe a future post.
being = becoming = being
That makes sense, Leo, and sometimes it doesn’t take many words to convey a concept with absolute clarity. Totally agreed. Very poignant, actually 🙂
The human being is in the process of becoming, Spirit is not. Spirit in Being. Spirit or the Godhead or Monad as you like to call it is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient – it is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. It is becoming nothing. It simply IS.
Being and becoming mean to completely different things Josh and you know they do. Moreover, your idea that God is becoming and its not complete in and of itself is to me….ridiculous.
“The human being is in the process of becoming, Spirit is not.”
Agreed! pure spirit, which I think is a bad translation, doesn’t indeed become anything. It is the law itself, ever present, which no one being can escape it’s working 🙂
You have contradicted yourself then – read back and see for yourself.
Being is not becoming – they are two distinct states of existence.
@Tracy Pierce :
Let us agree to disagree
You are not going to convince me, nor will I you
Leo I never addressed any message or reply to you. Only Josh. I couldn’t care a less what you believe or not. But not to worry – I am leaving this site 😉
Go in peace young Tracy. And may you find the Love you write about and so desperately seek.
Joshua, Thank you for the meat my brother. And Tracy, thank you, for the milk.
I wanted to add something important to this comment section which will better put things into perspective with Tracy and I, which I think many of you will appreciate. We’re actually good friends. It may have seemed like we were clashing, and in a sense this is a true (but only in ideas and not in spirit), because we strongly disagree about some things. But we also agree on many other things. I have the utmost respect for her. We have had hundreds (not an exaggeration) of email discussions back and forth with a unique bond that allows us to be very forthcoming with each other as we developed that friendship and had a common bond in discussing the deepest mysteries one can ask about the nature and origin of consciousness, the manifold universe, human nature, and conscious spiritual development. We often times tease each other about how much we are “stuck” in our own ways. We push each other, keep each other on our toes, trying to find holes in each other’s logic constantly, but only in our quest for truth. We have also joked around that if people actually read our emails, they might think we were mortal enemies because we have each given each other the license to discuss the esoteric principles of the human constitution, and sometimes our debates become fierce, but to us, it’s just our passion for the truth, and we laugh it off.
I say all this because I want everyone to know that SOS is an open forum where people can freely discuss their ideas, even to the point of passion, as long as we give each other respect to express our individual thoughts. To be honest, I think there are probably some things that we are all both very wrong about (I am speaking to myself), or at the very least have a limited understanding of, and other things that we are correct about based on the experience we have encountered and the triumphs we’ve made in our individual spiritual walks. And this is human life in its finest!
That being said, I don’t want anyone in the SOS community, who feels the need to disagree, to ever shy away, if, and only if, you feel the need and want to to engage and share your thoughts and experience, even if they directly oppose mine. These kinds of conversations may help an outsider just reading the comments to suddenly have an epiphany about human nature or a spiritual idea that is even outside what’s being discussed! I have had many people personally email me and tell me they appreciate the dialogue more than the articles! Lol, and I am so cool with that if it helps anyone 🙂 That’s what this forum is for! And trust me, this comment is not to “defend” Tracy, because as we can all see, she is perfectly capable of doing that for herself 🙂
Anyway, I think our discussions, even passionate ones, can bring knowledge to the table. Even if Tracy and I were both wrong in many of the things we laid out in this thread (although deep down it is easy to see that we both think strongly about our positions 🙂 But at the end of the day let’s all laugh it off and learn from everything we engage in. I know I will. I’ve learned that when I let emotion get the better of me, reason is thrown out the window and then intuition can never be accessed.
Thank you everyone in the SOS community for allowing me to at least throw topics out there some of us have a deep appreciation for, and grow from, not because of my writing or my thoughts (though if it does help great!), but more from the human interactions and bonds and passions for discussing as what we see as truths in our current states of spiritual evolution, no matter where each individual is at in this process. I will always strive to share what I have learned and have certain convictions for, and if I am wrong in any of them, I hope and have faith that I will see the bigger picture as I continue to engage with you all 🙂 We are all fallible, but we are also all spiritual individual egos that have learned, through experience, some things that attains to wisdom.
Blessings.
Hi Josh,
I am still working my way down through the comment section, and after leaving a message for Tracy I would like to let you know that I just found this site a couple of days ago and have been glued to it. I am in awe of the work, and the understanding of the subjects. I have truly enjoyed your perspective and interpretation of scripture. I am not a student of the bible, but I have been studying and been on a spiritual quest/journey for so much of my life. Your interpretations remind me of what I came to understand through the teachings of Neville Goddard. Also I am reminded of the work in A Course in Miracles while reading this work. As you mentioned in the above comment on your relationship with Tracy and your many conversations, I so appreciate that you shared one here, as it has helped me to see what is being explained in a much brighter light. Having both vantage points certainly helps.
Thank you both
Hi Tracy,
I would say Fierce rhymes with Pierce. So much so I thought you are male 🙂
And thanks for the feisty answer, I don’t mind. In the heat of the battle this happens.
Be well,
Leo.
Thank you for your comment x
Thank you, Josh, for yet another great piece of ancient biblical meat, with my favorite sauce subject – the intellect. You have a great capacity, Josh, for grasping broader concepts and presenting these in a very relatable and simple manor – that’s your gift, Josh, from which many have gained in their understanding of scriptures more comprehensively, including myself.
I love here how you expounded on ‘the three of knowledge’, and on Adam and Eve being naked, and thus not having the capacity of knowing the difference between right and wrong.
But, of course, this understanding can remain only directional until implemented at personal level. Question: how does one access the tree of knowledge, the state which on directly knowing represents the criterion of right and wrong action — the flow of true spiritual wisdom. I’m sure part 2 will have something to say in this area.
On a slightly different tangent, Josh, can I digress to pose a few general observations on scriptures which you may find humorous, or even laughable.
Like, do we ever wonder – in the context of Higher wisdom and Revelation — what is the difference between what Jesus says and what for instance, Isaiah or Paul or John or the Psalmist say? In other words, from the perspective of divine wisdom distribution, what difference does it make WHO said what and when? I mean, we could jumble all the biblical sayings around and put different names after the quotations and ask ourselves: what difference did it made to the mind who specifically said this or that. We could apply this humour to the entire 66? books of Scriptures.
I often joke to myself, saying, at what event, or, in what setting or practical circumstance were these words ever uttered, and, more particularly, who recorded them, who was the stenographer, for we know the 12 apostles /disciples were not real people, rather aspects of the soul?
That, maybe the entire Bible narrative was only ever ‘written’: compiled by groups of scholars based on other people’s spiritually aware inputs globally. And, that these great words and insights were never really spoken as such, by anyone as presented, but rather represent the words and insights of what a highly developed intellect would express. And even though the Gospels have accredited names and titles, the Gospels’ authors, to my knowledge, were anonymous, which, of course, does not invalidate the beautiful and amazing writings and understandings which have stood the test of time and helped so many of us spiritually.
Then, we may ask: how many people actually contributed to the entire bibliography? Or Bible for short.
It’s estimated that around 1.500 people contributed to the Bible from different continents, from which a consensus was arrived at, later to form the Bible as we know it. In other words, a lot more souls inputted into the Bible than we’re led to accept. A lot more evolved intellects it would seem were involved in scriptures’ composition. My point is, Josh, that all of these contributors were not, if any, recognized, canonized Saints. But yet, their intellects, based on these expressed words of wisdom, represent the highest or established state of higher Self. My point being, that one does not have to be a scriptural Saint to acquire and express divine wisdom.
I can well remember those days before I ever attended my first yoga / meditation class – which was also well before my present TM practice – and the state of utter confusion I was living through.
The difference, post awakening, between the awakened, resolute intellect expression and the previous lower state was profoundly stark and amazing.
From my own experience thus, Josh, once the mind developed the habit of regular meditation and encountering pure silence, it soon developed intuitive courage to fully let go of trying to control meditation practice and life in general, thus allowing transcendence ‘to happen’: consciousness rising into a state not previously encountered. Gradually I began hearing a new silent or intuitive language surfacing from the inner depths into conscious awareness, like never before. Finally, it emerged, that, there exists no capacity for conscious thinking in the transcendent state. And because of this, post meditation, we’re naturally customized or enabled to go about our daily affairs in the transcendent Now simultaneously with the outer world of activity.
Prior to this transcendental breakthrough, I had no choice but to endure excessive, compulsory non-spiritual thinking – or suffering, the outpourings of installed subconscious mind-sets.
Now on reading spiritual text, I could relate to this transcendent state with informed understanding, when Bible texts self-translated. I was becoming mentally and physically de-stressed from old conditioning — the onion was de-layering, thus my freedom from compulsive and habitual wrong thinking patterns was beginning to emerge as reality.
Finally, it dawned that, no matter how many fine words and terms I read, that, ultimately, one has to commit and fully apply oneself to developing his or her own inner space: develop and raise one’s ignorance-based consciousness and lower animal intellect unto divine standard through knowing mental silence, thereby commencement of inner freedom through pure mental discipline – when our inner disciples are singing — thus gaining ability of witnessing transient thoughts passing through the conscious mind; that we don’t have to click the thought links just because these arise in the conscious mind encouraged, baited or stimulated by adverts, social media or what others may be thinking about us. Thus developing ability of conscious decision making – as opposed to automatic subconscious reaction patterns — leading to independent application of awakened soul nature thereby independent thinking and discernment through a Resolute intellect as opposed to the irresolute – which difference for me, spiritually speaking, was staggering. It was this non-ability of making conscious choices through the heightened spiritual intellect that caused so much personal suffering.
Finally, we come to the conclusion, that, actually, it was, is, and always will be, the same Higher intellect that uttered the entire Bible, which utterances are still being carried on through others — with ability of knowing the difference — even to this day. That, the same original Higher spiritual intellect continues working through different people globally, even those who disagree with our words and our scriptural perceptions. Evolution, as mentioned in comment to Genet yesterday, has its incremental ways of mutually resolving and perfecting.
This of course, Josh, is not intended as a biblical overview but rather some on-site observations and remembrances.
Like most of your readers, Josh, I too am looking forward to part2, and thank you again for this great part1.
Blessing.
Raymond, yes, I will definitely address this more in part 2, and I will look forward to your comments providing additional insight if you see fit as we explore more of how the higher mind and lower mind works.
I really appreciated your comment. It went deep and provided some honest questions about the scriptures themselves.
First off let me just say, I agree with you. No understanding of the scriptures is necessary for any kind of spiritual progress or enlightenment. Sometimes an astute intellect and quite observer of nature alone can begin to see the inherent flaws of the lower mind and have aspirations to transcend it through the simplest of understandings, and no scripture is necessary!
I myself can say the study of scriptures helped me immensely but only in conjunction with a strong, dogmatic religious background in which I began to question some of the absurdities of societal and religious conditioning because my soul longed for something beyond contradictions and simple feelings of belonging to one group or another. And man did the journey and rabbit hole truly start! I am sure for others, it is a completely different experience which had nothing to do with a religious background at all!
As to relates on your comments about the Bible itself and the many different contributions, yes! I believe the Bible is one of the most perfect compiled books of history (akin to the Bagavad Gita and a few others) relating to the evolution of mind and spirit every written, and at the same time one of the most imperfect! This seems like a contradiction, but let me explain.
It, or rather they, the ancient scriptures the world over, can become the most blinding force if interpreted from religious dogmatic viewpoints. The Bible we have today is not perfect. As you pointed out, there have been so many contributing authors through hundreds of years of changes and influences. It is not just the King James that is filled with flaws, but even those manuscripts dating back to almost the times some claim they are written. The truth often lies veiled between not just faulty translations, but even in some of the close as can be originals which contradict other books.
And to answer another point, some of the mini stories tell of the entire evolution of man and how the law develops in man in one of the books, such as Job. The book of Job is an entire mini Bible in and of itself, and if all the esoteric keys would be instantly given out in it according to the understanding of the original author / authors, one could just read THAT and get just as much out of that alone and never read the others.
Same with the Torah, or first five books only, if the true esoteric keys were fully revealed, which no one has access to today, and must intuit, and probably still get some things wrong no matter how brilliant one way.
I will relay some information below that I think you will greatly appreciate, Raymond.
The Torah, or first five books, when uncovered esoterically, sum up the LAW of Paul, the mystical teachings of Paul, even though he is part of the New Testament, and this is all he knew and referenced. Remember, his writings were published BEFORE the gospels and that’s why he knew nothing of the miracles of Jesus, the virgin birth, etc., and didn’t write about that. But here’s a key:
The Torah ends with Moses’s death. He was the only person meeting God face and face, and the must meek of all, and yet HE COULD NOT ENTER THE PROMISED LAND. Why? It is because of what he represents esoterically. He represents the moral / ethical nature (understanding of Divine Law) of a high degree, but could not enter because that was the job of Joshua AND Caleb. What do these two people symbolically represent as aspects of the soul that is culminated in Christ, or those who could enter?
Joshua is the one accredited with being the “type and forerunner of Christ.” But this is where the scholars, especially Christian ones, have missed an esoteric key. Joshua was from the tribe of Ephriam, not Judah, like Jesus. It was Caleb who is from the tribe of Judah. Ephriam camps on the left side of the tabernacle, symbolizing the left brain, or analytical thinking and rationality. Caleb however, camping on the right side of the tabernacle, and symbolizing the right side of the brain, spiritual awareness and creativity, is on the side of the rising sun (son) from the East. Think about the right side, Jesus casting his net, and all the other New Testament symbols for “right.”
It is both Joshua and the lesser known Caleb that together represent necessary soul attributes developed within that lead the people into the Promised Land. Moses, the intellectual and moral nature dies, not a forever death, but just showing that the soul must progress further before entering, even though Moses was a great as he was. Moses, the intellectual nature, trained Joshua, from Ephraim. But there’s more. Joshua was the son of NUN, which means, the son of the “serpent.” Jesus equates the serpent as “wise.” Joshua, combined with Caleb, the left and right brain as one, was able to take the lead and charge the Promised land and conqueror the giants, aspects of mental stubborness, or the skandas from Eastern teachings.
So not only do we have the physiology and psychology of the development of man being shown here, but his spiritual attributes, showing a complete picture. This is a mini completion of the soul’s journey. But what happened culturally. Many more Biblical writers came and expanded on the story, and then you had a continuation of this development of man in later books like the Prophets and Psalms and Proverbs, etc.
Can you see now Josh?
Until the conscious (Son) mind has merged with its true Consciousness (Father) which only happens in Self-Realization it is aka known as the inverted Christ or Satan or the apple if you like. Until consciousness (Conscious mind) and awareness (subconscious mind) of the mind have come together as one and are resting in the fullness of Soul aka (Full Awareness or Mother) present moment which intuits our true Consciousness (Full Consciousness or Father) and we are living by Faith (knowing what to do say, think and be in each and every moment through being guided intuitively) under Grace (Pure alignment of all aspects of being multidimensionally). This is grace – Spirit>Soul>Subconscious<ConsciousNow(Soul)>Spirit) <…..They are all ONE.
Do not look at them as being aspects of something or parts of your own Soul because you don't have your own Soul. You have your own Spirit, being the SON of God, not the daughter. Eve is the daughter if you like as she serves the son seeing how the son is conscious of Eve. The mother does not serve the son because she answers only to the father who is fully consciousness. He is not yet conscious of the mother who is the fullness of Eve, like the father is the Fullness of the Son. Each lifetime sees the son become more conscious of being awareness. In other words, the son becomes more conscious of his mother. The subconscious IS the mother. Each lifetime sees the son have more dominion over the Soul taking eve from being a daughter to being a mother. It is the father calling the son home through the mother.
This is why I tell you that the only way to purify the mind is through meditation. What contaminates the mind is taking thought – creating life as opposed to serving it – revealing it. As soon as we take thought we corrupt Eve because she thinks she is serving the Christ within Father, not the Inverted Son. Your conscious mind must marry the subconscious which leads into the Spiritual Lands of the Mother and the Father who raises us up and we live by Faith alone which is instruction from our true intelligence through the medium of Love (Soul or Mother or Awareness).
Can you see now why you cannot purify your mind by taking thought Josh? Your mind which is still in its Satan state like nearly everyone else's by degree including mine lol is telling you this is what you must do to purify your mind and you as Satan are saying, you are right okay, what shall we think and do then so that we can really do God work lol. It is just one thought mind fucking another lol. It is a maze – a never ending story full of bullshit. You have to firstly kill the imposter before embodying your true Self. This means stopping thought altogether until you experientially (<Important distinction there) experience yourself as the Father. If you have to ask what does that feel like then you haven't experienced it. You know without a shadow of a doubt if you have touched the hem of the Christs gown. To me it DOES feel like a current running through you and the heart of everything and other times it just feels otherworldly yet more real than reality. You will recall what reality feels like and this recollection will in time kill the illusion. For some it maybe instant – not for me. It appears to be happening a wee bit at a time.
Then you won't have to think about how to be a good human and serve the world because life takes care of itself and you are Life. Knowing is greater than thinking. Knowing is of the Soul and the Mother (AM) serves only the Father (I). The Father and mother that is (not 'are' because they are singular) omniscient, omniscient, and omnipresent – the Alpha and the Omega – which means Now. Meaning all that can be created has been created and it is good.
Oh yes, I agree in part. Lucifer being kicked out of heaven is explaining the fallen man’s state and can be closely related to Adam after the fall. Satan, or the adversary, is the desire mind itself, which are the selfish thoughts of the ego and mind in its desire state. It is known in scripture as the “carnal mind” which is opposed to the spirit. The carnal mind sees itself separate from everyone else, and therefore produces thoughts which cause actions for the preservation of the lower nature. It is not thought itself that is bad, it is the type and quality of thought that propels man towards his spiritual destination, and meditation ALONE cannot work by itself. Let me explain. If one has wrong intentions, expecting to gain something of a selfish nature from meditation, this alone cannot purify the mind. The intent has to be correct, with simply a yearning for the spirit itself. Man’s “thought-life” on a daily purpose has everything to do with meditating also. One has to also come from the heart, hearing the conscience within, which is an impression from the higher nature itself. When one aligns his or her thoughts towards love, and practices this in all his life, whether in sitting meditation or out in the daily world, then deeper aspects of meditation will come on their own when ready – we just have to make the effort.
If one lives an evil life, no amount of meditation is going to give anyone benefit unless to selfishly gain certain psychic powers which do nothing for the spiritual nature because they are extra perceptions possible in the lower nature. Of course, these powers will develop on their own with proper spiritual intent, but the goal should not be to meditate just to gain these extra sensory abilities for the desire of the lower self, or else they become a curse.
And no, the mind cannot be purified by thinking, either. To go into the deeper levels of Samadhi per se, there is no active thinking. In fact, at this stage, the physical active mind is rendered a blank (which must happen), for they are to be completely paralyzed before the spiritual consciousness can be registered from the heart chakra to the brain and be impressed there. But the lower thinking mind must be paralyzed. However, this is a very advanced stage and most will not experience such states in this life without the proper preparation. However, this should not always be our aim. The human’s progress is usually slow, and many faculties are awakened as we experience life and learn to deal with our adversities in spiritual ways.
But thinking and developing a highly sophisticated intellect (as long as one is working with morals and his personal conscience and learning to listen to that inner voice), is also part of the process. The inner voice, or conscience, KNOWS right and wrong without the thinking mind having to figure it out at this stage in our conscious development. However, when someone lives a life of negativity and steeps their soul in it, that voice can become atrophied.
Developing a strong intellect through spiritual study should not be stated to be bad. And in fact such a practice can help the meditative process through ways such as developing concentration, for without the ability to stay focused and concentrate, meditation will not be all that useful in the current stage of evolution.
J: Oh yes, I agree in part. Lucifer being kicked out of heaven is explaining the fallen man’s state and can be closely related to Adam after the fall. Satan, or the adversary, is the desire mind itself, which are the selfish thoughts of the ego and mind in its desire state. It is known in scripture as the “carnal mind” which is opposed to the spirit. The carnal mind sees itself separate from everyone else, and therefore produces thoughts which cause actions for the preservation of the lower nature. It is not thought itself that is bad, it is the type and quality of thought that propels man towards his spiritual destination, and meditation ALONE cannot work by itself. Let me explain. If one has wrong intentions, expecting to gain something of a selfish nature from meditation, this alone cannot purify the mind. The intent has to be correct, with simply a yearning for the spirit itself. Man’s “thought-life” on a daily purpose has everything to do with meditating also. One has to also come from the heart, hearing the conscience within, which is an impression from the higher nature itself. When one aligns his or her thoughts towards love, and practices this in all his life, whether in sitting meditation or out in the daily world, then deeper aspects of meditation will come on their own when ready – we just have to make the effort.
Me: LOL Josh – seriously – it doesn’t matter what your intentions are when you go into meditation as the personal self dies at the altar. What do you think happens when all personal thought is done away with. When you have no body consciousness at all? When you no longer identify as the mind and body. Who or what do you suppose is left? Consider this carefully Josh and you will see that a personal sense of self cannot live beyond the Christ or Meditative mind. The only thing that creates a personal sense of self, such as habits, core belief, preferences was all born from first taking one thought and then another. The personal self cannot survive the tempering or mind which is spoken about in the bible. You cannot be born again of Spirit until you have died of the personal self and are RIP within the Soul, as the risen Son. You cannot put old wine into new wine skin. Both will perish. And HELLO Josh, the subconscious IS the heart. WTF else could it be lol? The subconscious is where the Christ is born, and you have said so yourself. – I can quote you from one of your emails lol. Basically, everything you have stated in that paragraph has been negated.
J: If one lives an evil life, no amount of meditation is going to give anyone benefit unless to selfishly gain certain psychic powers which do nothing for the spiritual nature because they are extra perceptions possible in the lower nature. Of course, these powers will develop on their own with proper spiritual intent, but the goal should not be to meditate just to gain these extra sensory abilities for the desire of the lower self, or else they become a curse.
T: The mind does not seek meditation for evil purposes generally as the mind tend to shy away from suicide LOL as it is mostly certainly the death of the ego which is why the ego makes 101 excuses not to do it. Moreover, the son cannot fool the mother. True Love only responds to its own. The tail cannot wag the dog. Mentalism cannot use Spiritualism. This is why you cannot really explain awareness nor consciousness to me outside the words nonconceptual and undifferentiated lol.
J: And no, the mind cannot be purified by thinking, either. To go into the deeper levels of Samadhi per se, there is no active thinking. In fact, at this stage, the physical active mind is rendered a blank (which must happen), for they are to be completely paralyzed before the spiritual consciousness can be registered from the heart chakra to the brain and be impressed there. But the lower thinking mind must be paralyzed. However, this is a very advanced stage and most will not experience such states in this life without the proper preparation. However, this should not always be our aim. The human’s progress is usually slow, and many faculties are awakened as we experience life and learn to deal with our adversities in spiritual ways.
T: No active thinking equates to meditation Josh – lol – you get that right? (Plus you contradict yourself a lot lol) Meditation means being and being means stillness – all are the essence of Awareness. This higher and lower thinking mind is just confusing Josh. There is the intuitive mind and there is the logical mind which serves it. There is no real higher and lower. Both are purified by meditation which is the true Christ mind that surrenders completely to the Father.
J: But thinking and developing a highly sophisticated intellect (as long as one is working with morals and his personal conscience and learning to listen to that inner voice), is also part of the process. The inner voice, or conscience, KNOWS right and wrong without the thinking mind having to figure it out at this stage in our conscious development. However, when someone lives a life of negativity and steeps their soul in it, that voice can become atrophied.
T: The subconscious is the first to be healed on our way back to ourselves. The subconscious being the Eve that was deceived by the Satanic (wild) Adam as opposed to the grown-up Adam that is Christ.
J: Developing a strong intellect through spiritual study should not be stated to be bad. And in fact such a practice can help the meditative process through ways such as developing concentration, for without the ability to stay focused and concentrate, meditation will not be all that useful in the current stage of evolution.
T: Well with all due respect my friend, you are deceiving yourself. You are mistaking your own consciousness for being awareness. You are rising in thought instead of the Soul. The only way to rise within the Soul is to stay in the present moment which means staying out of thought. Consider that Josh. You cannot be in the moment if you are thinking can you. No you cannot. You can only be in the moment when you are mentally still and present. You need to understand this! Because you don’t seem to be able to. Thought then is led by knowing and knowing is…well you just know and you do KNOW without taking thought. I guess you have to experience this knowing to know LOL
I appreciate your tenacity, my friend, but I have to provide an alternative well written article for those who wish to see the other side, and then they can weigh this topic out for themselves. Below is a link with quite a lot of wisdom in it that I think many may appreciate before finding their own way 🙂 There are quite a few significant quotes that can reveal more to the puzzle. I suggest one who is interested in this topic to meditate on them deeply and carefully.
https://blavatskytheosophy.com/study-thinking-and-using-the-mind/
Hi Josh – as I told you in email I thought I woud post here what we were discussing as it sums up nicely what I was trying to put across. Now its not particularly biblical because I am not. I’m a New Zealander. Kiwis don’t so much go to church to be with God but the beach 🙂 That being said….
Though we are not the mind, we do have one, like we have a body, or we have a car. It is true that without my car I could not drive – but I am not the car. If I identified with the car then I would lose all the gifts that a mind and body have Gifts the car does not. This is severely limiting. I would limit myself to merely the faculties of the car. Do you see? It is true, I could not live in this world without the mind (being the bridge between the physical and spiritual) however I am not the mind. I am what is left when the mind and body pass away to transfigure themselves into another form used by the One Soul or another Soul within the One Soul.
To reiterate I am what is left after the mind and body pass away. Therefore, I am Awareness being Consciousness. Or I am the Soul being Spirit. The two cannot be separated – no more than the mind and body can be . Again, we can liken Consciousness being Awareness to the mind and body. The body is an expression of our mind like the Soul is an expression of Spirit therefore there really is no higher or lower in their Oneness. Spirit is no higher than Soul. they simply play different parts of the One. The express themselves differently as the One.
In order to the mind to REVEAL Spirit being Soul, it must have an intuitive connection with the realm above it for the mind cannot think what it does not know. It could not think to have another experience without being aware of the choice to do so, therefore are we learning from the experience itself? Or are we remembering/revealing what we already know BEING Spirit/Soul, but previously had no awareness of due to the distraction of egoic thoughts and feelings that veil our Inner Awareness?
Of course, our mind and bodies are our own and of course we could not be in this world without them. However, they both pass away. Thoughts and feelings which you identify with will eventually pass away when their body of expression do. Therefore, you will be left with that is behind them, which is consciousness being awareness. The awareness of the Incarnate Soul that is either not at all, partially or completely merged with the One Soul (Buddhi or Awareness) is the embodiment of Spirit (Atma or Consciousness).
The conscious mind that is our consciousness, our I am-ness or presence of being that we know ourselves to be right now, in the event of physical death merges with our Awareness that it cannot do at present when egoic thoughts and feelings veil it. If the conscious mind, through taking thought, did not veil it but instead knew itself to be Awareness or Soul – both the Incarnate and the One true Soul, then it would know it’s true Self in and of Spirit for Soul is the embodiment of Spirit. In knowing or being conscious of ourselves being Spirit as the conscious mind, true intelligence is then intuited through the One Soul, then through the Incarnate Soul that is One with the Conscious mind. For it is ONLY the conscious mind (Our sense of I am-ness we have in life) that is misaligned or asleep. The rest of our being is wide awake and aligned with each other.
In this manner Self Realization is experienced. When we die therefore it is not something we dread neither for ourselves or others. It would merely be seen as a set of clothes which we take off each night. Sadly (myself included) do not FULLY know we are Awareness or Soul being Spirit because we identify with our thoughts and their subsequent emotions. Thought and feelings aka the conscious mind (and this is important to note) that has NOT merged with the Awareness of the Incarnate Soul, nor the One Soul, cannot know its true intelligence which is Spirit. Do you see now?
These thoughts and feelings I am discussing here (born of the conscious mind) are not born of ones True Intelligence but of the Conscious mind that is like a branch cut off from the Vine. It is cut off because it – being consciousness – is looking for looking for itself in consciousness. In other words, we – being thought or consciousness (same diff) is looking for ourselves in thought – in consciousness. We will never find ourselves there as the mental realm is completely different to the Spiritual Realm where the Soul resides in the NOW.
We should be keeping the mind still (meditation or praying without ceasing) so that it has a chance to know and merge with the Awareness of its Incarnate Soul, which is where the Christ is born (In and of manas) and which leads to the Awareness of the One Soul being Spirit. Most do not know themselves as Soul as they are too distracted as Consciousness rising Consciousness or put another way, thought rising in thought aka thinking. Thought distracts itself by thought and feelings and forgets itself as Awareness.
I would say that Spirit being Soul is having the human experience through their Son, (Incarnate Soul) or the mind. The mind is the bridge or the link between the physical and the Spiritual.
(I also posted it on my group and page 🙂
Tracy, thanks for adding more depth to this…
You state: Though we are not the mind, we do have one, like we have a body, or we have a car. It is true that without my car I could not drive – but I am not the car. If I identified with the car then I would lose all the gifts that a mind and body have Gifts the car does not. This is severely limiting. I would limit myself to merely the faculties of the car. Do you see? It is true, I could not live in this world without the mind (being the bridge between the physical and spiritual) however I am not the mind. I am what is left when the mind and body pass away to transfigure themselves into another form used by the One Soul or another Soul within the One Soul.
I do agree partially. As the human individual experience, I believe we are the mind. The spiritual soul is what you are speaking of, but it is unconscious in its latent potential on this plane unless assimilated by Manas, which means man, mind. So in a sense, yes, as a human, we ARE a mind in evolution. But the human mind is not the true spiritual source of THAT which drives everything. However, without the mind which is still a part of THAT, the law itself, the law itself could not cognize itself nor experience intellectual and an “awareness” of itself. The human mind has the ability to become the clarity which merges with the spiritual soul, but this vehicle is still needed, so in a sense we can say, yes, we are mind too.
You also state…
“To reiterate I am what is left after the mind and body pass away.”
The mind does not pass away in the grand cycle of evolution between incarnations in physical death. But the state of that mind is ever changing. Let me reiterate a comment made on the last post by Elizabeth, which really brings clarity to this according to the ancient wisdom literature when dealing with higher and lower mind, or personal ego and spiritual ego:
“After a lifetime comes to an end, all the truly spiritual, noble, pure, and good, qualities and attributes of that now defunct personal self become assimilated by and part of this Reincarnating Ego, the soul. The qualities, attributes, and characteristics which were of a personal nature – not by any means necessarily “bad” but simply attached to the earthly being in a way that is not completely selfless and altruistic – do not dissolve into oblivion but will go to form the skandhas, this being a Buddhist term used in Theosophy for the traits, tendencies, and characteristics, which comprise our personal self in a particular lifetime.
We can – and hopefully are! – improving the colouring and “flavour” of our skandhas as we go through life. Whether we make them better or worse, this in turn will have significant bearing on what our personal self is like in the next incarnation. This is an important part of Karma, the law of cause and effect, action and reaction, sequence and consequence, sowing and reaping.”
Blavatsky gives a good analogy of how the higher mind or causal body (spiritual ego in combination with Atma – Buddhi – Manas, the trinity or upper triad), grows through each personality. Think of it, she states, like a necklace. Each personality after death represents one of the pearls strung on that necklace. But it is only when that personality (the lower manas), had a selfless thought related to some act that conquered, as the blood that “crieth from the ground out of Abel,” that reaches God still, becomes one of those pearls and adds to the permanent individuality (not the fleeting personality), and makes the necklace larger. This is a LONG process of unfoldment of latent spiritual qualities, which start out slow and few, but should grow. But also as stated above, the self acts of Cain, even though these acts are dissolved at death and become the basic constituents of astral particles again, there remains a germ of THAT must be recombined with, through karma (a man reaps what he sows), into that next incarnating personality. This forms the basic subsets of a personality and what makes one child differ so much from another, which is not related to environment alone but also heredity, which is determined by those Skandas, or traits and germs from the form lower aspects of the former life’s personality.
The next incarnation then is a combination of the highest aspirations from the former life, always remaining “pure,” but also combined with those of the lower personality of the former life. This is why EACH THOUGHT, WORD, AND DEED is so important according to the true LAW, or karma, which informs EVERY PRINCIPLE in man according to his or her works in each life.”
You also state:
“In order to the mind to REVEAL Spirit being Soul, it must have an intuitive connection with the realm above it for the mind cannot think what it does not know. It could not think to have another experience without being aware of the choice to do so, therefore are we learning from the experience itself? Or are we remembering/revealing what we already know BEING Spirit/Soul, but previously had no awareness of due to the distraction of egoic thoughts and feelings that veil our Inner Awareness?”
Yes! But remember, the higher mind, as the accumulated higher spiritual aspirations of the personal ego from each life, experiences past and future as the present, which is what it is as that accumulation (causal body), which deals with your question directly as both. There is no time in the true sense of the higher mind, so it is what it is, and isn’t a linear thought process, but the totality of all that linear process before it. When this incarnates, it becomes fragmented as linear thought concepts experienced in the astral brain first, then relayed to the physical brain next. Why? Because of the karmic results of the skandhas which must play out according to cosmic law, or karma. So waking consciousness is linear, until kundalini rising begins attuning the molecular – physical environment to be vibrationally in accord with non-linear consciousness. A great mystery indeed.
I have to disagree Josh. You know I do and have many times with you lol. So let me reiterate more clearly. You are identifying as thoughts and feelings which you are calling mind – which they are but the physical and mental mind and you are neither. You are not a physical or mental being. You are Spirit. The Incarnate Soul which you call mind is not thoughts and feelings. The incarnate Soul is Awareness that does not think Josh. It knows. You are the Awareness behind these thoughts and feelings. The mind (Thoughts and feelings) and body will pass away once their physical body of expression no longer exists. What is left of you, is the experience of Awareness being the son of Awareness being Consciousness. In other words, you will be left with being simply awareness that is conscious of itself, both individually (as an individual Soul) and collectively for you are a vessel or an expression in and of the One true Soul (Awareness) that is embodied by Spirit aka Consciousness. Thought (Conscious mind) and feeling (subconscious mind) are merely vessels for Awareness (Subconscious mind) being consciousness (conscious mind). Unless the conscious mind is realized, true intelligence or full consciousness is not experienced in life and this is the reality of most people to date.
The Incarnate Soul (That is behind form – feelings thoughts body etc) was born in the image of the true Self. The true Self, being Spirit expressed as Soul or Consciousness being Awareness or God or whatever word or concept you prefer. This is why Rumi said, take me back to the root of my root. Take me back to the Soul of my Soul. The One true Soul that is the full and true expression of Consciousness. Self Realization is being conscious of being awareness or put another way, Spirit being Soul. God (Spirit being Soul) gave birth to his son (Incarnate Soul) that was born in his image, therefore the son is also Consciousness being Awareness. Spirit being Soul. However, the son is a vessel for the Father to express himself in. The incarnate soul like the mind in births in the physical, does not have a life of its own, even though it (like you lol) thinks it does. This is where we come to your adam and eve story for consciousness is separated from awareness to varying degrees in people. Self Realization is the merging of the sons consciousness and Awareness, so that as one, the son can know itself as Cause or God.
It is the awareness – the consciousness behind the mind that cognizes Josh, not the thoughts and feelings you have. If this was not true then you would truly be dead upon physical death. You would be after death neither conscious or aware – for they are One.
The personality is born when the person or incarnate Soul is born. You are neither. Like you have a mind and body, so too do you have an Incarnate Soul – a vessel or avatar but you are not that. You are One – you are Spirit being Soul, that expresses itself multi dimensionally as many things and non-things. If you identify as anything but the One true Self, then you will form an attachment to that form that in time will cause you to suffer and believe and cause you to fear the end of your existence and the existence of those you love.
Jesus said of myself (Incarnate Soul) I am nothing, it is the father in me (The true Soul being Spirit) that does the work and he meant that quite literally. When you see me you see the father. All throughout the book is says time and time again, that he is not here to do his will but the will of his father.
The conscious mind loses itself in maya or illusion aka thoughts and feelings conjured up by a conscious mind that is unconscious of itself as Awareness. When we are not conscious of our true Self we create false images – false thoughts – and idolize them. Identify with them. They distract us so much we forget who we are – the Awareness behind them.
God or Consciousness being Awareness moulds the Incarnate Soul like a potter does clay though billions of lifetimes, so that eventually the Incarnate Soul can take its full measure. This is when the lion (spirit) lies down with the lamb (soul) and heaven comes to earth. Heaven being a state of consciousness. Hell is a state of consciousness whereby we are not conscious of our true selves but only as a mind and body with thoughts and feelings that are nothing more than false images – thoughts and feeling conjured up by the conscious mind that does not know itself.
The only way to know yourself as Awareness (Soul) that is behind all the thoughts and feelings the rogue conscious mind (Your I am-ness) is making is if you adopt a meditative mind or pray without ceasing. Without so many thoughts and feelings there, your conscious mind – your I am-ness will have no choice but to become conscious of itself as Awareness. The same Awareness it was before birth and the same it will be after death – only slightly more evolved thx be to the last incarnation.
You are saying that we must use higher thinking to find our true Self but higher thinking is only marginally better than lower thinking. Thinking is thinking. Every thought you have had a subsequent emotion (Emotion is thought expressed, the are the same thing vibrating and expressing itself on different levels of being). All these thoughts and feelings are distracting you – veiling your true Self as Awareness. As Soul. You are looking for your Soul in these higher thoughts but you will never find it for the Soul cannot be known through the caravan of thought. It can only be known though the stillness of thought. It is true thinking will lead you to the well but you have to leave the thinking mind behind and adopt the being mind before you can drink from it.
This is why Jesus says to keep our daily bread unleavened. Do not let the mind rise in thought least it carry you away with it. It must stay leavened. Still. So that consciousness marries Awareness. Consciousness or the conscious mind (thought)rising in consciousness (thought) is just daydreaming – illusion maya – a maze where you continually chase your tail. BUT Consciousness (the conscious mind) expanding in awareness is reality. It is NOW.
That is what the homosexual verses come from. It has nothing to do with relationships in the real world. It is saying do not let the conscious mind or consciousness which is male energy, rise in consciousness for they will birth an abomination. Consciousness must expand or rise in awareness (soul) which is female energy. Together they birth the Christ.
You need not take thought for yourself when you know yourself as Awareness for you are intuitively feed by the holy ghost. Awareness is not a thinker – it is a knower. It is omniscient. You will just know what to do what to say what to think what to be in each and every moment. This is living by Faith. One is at peace for copious thoughts and feelings do not bother them so they know themselves as Awareness which is always peace and happiness.
Tracy…
Thanks for the engaging continued discussion and the reply. This is getting quite involved and fun, and it’s great that everyone can see the dialogue and so many different points of view, which are not so really different when we get down to the bare meat, except a few essential differences.
Okay, so let’s get down to it. You state:
“You are identifying as thoughts and feelings which you are calling mind – which they are but the physical and mental mind and you are neither. You are not a physical or mental being. You are Spirit. The Incarnate Soul which you call mind is not thoughts and feelings. The incarnate Soul is Awareness that does not think Josh.”
First off, I think you are missing something important in my points. I am not identifying as “thoughts” and “feelings” which I call the mind. I am reiterating the “quality” of thoughts and feelings that come through with a clearer, more purified mind, in the state of our evolution and unfolding of spiritual attributes which are latent faculties needing our attention, care, heart, and head working towards and understanding the proper order of the one absolute and immutable principle, in manifestation. Manifestation is the key word here. The true Self is this immutable, unchanging, and omnipresent principle itself, which has an inherent property to give life and motion to the entire cosmos, through limiting itself into the creation, or manifestation, or whatever you want to call it. You call it pure awareness. I do not. Awareness infers something being aware of another thing, even if it becomes aware of itself. We humans can experience different levels of “awareness” in an certain situation. That immutable, unchanging, and omnipresent principle cannot be defined in any way by any concept truly, for to do so limits it in some way. It is neither conscious or unconscious, but rather absolute consciousness itself which I do not believe any intellect, no matter how great of an adept they are, can fully realize and comprehend, especially in the human kingdom. So when you refer to self-realization, what you are TRULY speaking of is an advanced stage in the spiritual evolution of the human soul which realizes it is not and never has been the limiting thoughts of the lower personality that that personality identified with all its life. In the process of self-realization you are speaking of, there happens an awareness within the purified human mind or soul that realizes the futility of the dual-thought nature which is an ever changing phenomenon based on external conditions that it once “became” and believed it was fully, when the fact is it is so much greater. But as a human soul, you are in fact limited, and one can self realize all they want within that human soul, but there will still be greater and greater potencies which are still latent and will further undergo evolution even after the human kingdom.
You are also inferring that in this state of our limited evolution, “thinking” is the problem. While this may be true for a vast majority of people who still identify and believe they are their thoughts, it is not the act of “thinking” itself that is the problem. It is the quality of those thoughts that are the problem. A large portion of humankind developing spiritual qualities (all of us here), haven’t even reached the stage of true, independent critical thinking, but are rather swept up by passional desires and negative emotions stemming from negative and habitual “thinking” patterns, which obscures true reason and rationality. True, rational thinking and the ability to reason is not the end all be all of spiritual evolution, because true intuition, which is a higher rationality balanced and blended with the heart (wisdom), thereby transcending the notions which most humans have as a rational function, and needs to be developed as a stage we are all undergoing. But even as the Biblical story of Solomon shows us, when that wisdom is not applied properly, it can be swayed by animal passions, and therefore wisdom becomes useless.
I may come to a great epiphany and truth through self realization, but if I have not the will power to apply it in my life, that wisdom never truly manifests. A self realized human, while immortalizing an aspect of that once limited personality, still will make mistakes, and will still have to battle the preceding karma created. This is why many self-realized individuals (or ones who claimed to be), still die of cancer, can be killed, etc. Now don’t get me wrong. I believe there are many degrees of self – realization, and some have worked along lines in this life and preceding lives which will allow different degrees of that realization to be manifested, and so they may be able to apply will in such a way that is much greater than others.
But what really is self – realization?
It is simply the ability to be unaffected mentally by the afflictions that will still come, for our spiritual evolution is not complete. It is the mental fortitude and development of character that allows one to remain at peace within when the storms on the outside are raging, and while another might still get caught up in these storms, the adept learns to mentally to sail through them without fear and anxiety and separation that those thoughts and feelings experienced through the lower self that identifies with them will still experience. It is a mental fortitude that is quite phenomenal!
A great theosophists whom I admire once said:
“A strong will results from the ability to concentrate one’s thought on an object chosen by one’s own decision, and to keep the thought concentrated under varying circumstances and in spite of external pressures. It is the fact of keeping the object of thought in the center of one’s considerations – even if there are opposite factors and confusing stimuli – that concentrates will and gathers magnetism. Thus the learner can elevate himself above circumstances and generate the strength needed to walk with independence.”
And now lets return to another important point. While the true self is not limited in any way, if you become “aware” of this fact, is any part of you still limited? Honest question. If you fully self realize as pure awareness, can you transcend any and all laws in that instant? Of course not. Why? Because even if we transcend the personality, that awareness that you are experiencing is still not omnipotent in the current stage you are undergoing in evolution. You are still governed by the laws in operation, and while you might have transcended an evolutionary stage in the process of spiritual unfoldment, you are still at the level you are.
But there is something you CAN and have transcended in that moment of now, and it is the illusion of the lower personality you once identified with. And the mind can then become a more apt vessel, being purified of this lower thinking ego, to manifest a greater aspect of the spirit for the rest of your life with mental fortitude and moral excellence. Not the morality and wisdom of man, but the morality and wisdom which opens the pathway to love everyone and everything, and accept that which you CAN control in your life but also equally except that which you still CANNOT control. And but accepting and diligently adhering to what you CAN control, through will, your intelligence, your thoughts, etc., you are becoming a co-creator with those laws of nature instead of working against them, whether consciously or unconsciously. And your evolution will proceed more favorably.
Last point, which I think is vital. You seem to be inferring that by not thinking and abiding in “awareness” will lead to self – realization. But even to abide in the awareness you are speaking of takes mental discipline. Whenever the trials of life come, and your remember or become aware to the fact that anxiety is rising or negative thought and feeling, you have to redirect that impulse of the animal nature and lower mind. And it is through the lower mind that that process begins. Remember, as the great mystic Blavatsky taught, while we are the true self as pure spirit, in OUR current stage in evolution to more fully realizing that, we are still, individual souls and MIND IN EVOLUTION. There is no escaping this reality. After self-realizing, you will still have a mind. And though it may be more purified, it won’t be able, in the human kingdom, to instantly realize and KNOW every experience and wisdom of the entire cosmos, because even the mind itself in higher kingdoms will go through more evolution and higher grades of mental purification.
The act of thinking will always be with you. But your thinking can change to have much more clarity of thought and incorporate loving kindness and wisdom.
Remember that great spiritual axiom: All ACTION is simply the prior accumulation of thought. Any action you take now has been predicated some prior line of thinking.
Kia ora Josh
Ask yourself my friend, who is the thinker behind the thoughts? The ego is a thinker, the Soul is a knower. If you trace every thought back to its origin you will see it is derived by the ‘I’ thought. All thoughts arise from the “I” thought. The false idea there is a thinker behind our thoughts but there is not one there. Just thoughts of a thinker. Don’t believe me? Trace every thought you have back to its Source. You will see there is no thinker there. It is merely the Conscious mind aka Inner I rising in one thought after another like a runaway train with no driver. It does not matter how clever or insightful your thoughts are Josh, they are still thoughts aka false images born of a mind disconnected to its Source, which is the Awareness behind these thoughts and subsequent feelings. You are still as consciousness or spirit present in the mental realm and not the Spiritual realm. The only way for the conscious mind – ones Inner I to connect with Awareness aka Soul it to keep a meditative mind. This is why Jesus kept saying, Be still and know that I am and do not take thought for yourself, what you will wear eat etc as well as to keep ones bread (thought) unleavened.
You believe the higher mind is expressed by right thinking. Right thinking that cannot help but be subjective. Subject to the ‘I am-ness’ behind it. If our sense of existence, or our I am-ness does not know its true Self in and of Awareness, then thoughts created in such a mind will be of false images. Thoughts generated by a mind deep in the limitation of mentalism. Deep in the mental realm of being partaking from the tree of knowledge rather than life. Life is Awareness. If we are not conscious of this awareness then we cannot live by Faith aka ‘knowing’. We must live by taking thought – judging measuring and comparing in the dark, outside Awareness in the realm of mentalism. For example: It is a rainy morning and you are deliberating on which way to drive to work to get there faster. The motorway or back roads. The mind that lives by the tree of knowledge must measure, discern, compare and contrast, relyins on past individual and collective memories to make the correct decision. There is a 50/50 chance of this person arriving to work in time. The mind that lives by the tree of life, intuits the best way to go with a 100% chance of getting there in time. Intuition gives us access to spiritual vision that is omniscient for it is omnipresent being the Inner I (and eyes) of all persons – all being and non-being. The mind that lives by the tree of knowledge has only their Inner I and experience to rely on, their own ‘person’. This state of mind is severely limited to the state of mind that does not take thought for itself but relies on Faith aka Knowing to Guide it. Awareness aka Soul is not a thinker. It is a knower. That is not to say that thinking is completely redundant and does not have its place for it does. This knowing must be analyzed and converted into knowledge so that it can be experienced in physicality. However at the moment we are thinking 90% (talking) of the time and being (listening) 10% if that. This is topsy turvy. The conscious mind which IS thought aka Consciousness or our I am-ness only constitutes 5-10% of our mind while the remaining portion of our mind – the subconscious substitutes 90-95% of the mind. The subconscious is our Incarnate Soul and is Awareness. Awareness is the essence of meditation aka Being. Therefore we should be Being, praying without ceasing 90-95% of the time instead of thinking. Remember the definition of being is not thinking. Meditation and being mean the same thing. “The defintion of meditation is the expulsion of all thought” – Sri Ramana Maharshi”. The two mind states of thinking and being cancel each other out and in fact rely on each other for defintion. If you are being in the moment then you cannot be thinking in the moment. If you are thinking in the moment then you cannot ‘be’ in the moment. How many of us look back in retrospect wishing to live a time all over again because we were not present in the moment with the person who has now left either through death or another means. Instead of being fully present with them we were distracted by whatever was going on in our minds. I know a lot of parents regret not being fully present with their children while they were growing up and a lot of children remorseful that they did not spend more time being fully present with their parents before their passing. One must be fully present in the awareness of Self which is always one with the NOW. The conscious mind must be fully conscious or present in the awareness (incarnate soul) of the subconscious, Remember consciousness (thought) is thought while awareness (subconscious) is felt. We must feel what we say. Otherwise, what we say will have no power to manifest itself.
When the conscious mind stays still and becomes conscious of itself as Awareness, the first thing that happens is the healing of the emotional body, (that sits in the subconscious) which was damaged through the egoic mind set of the conscious mind while cut off from its Source. It caused negative emotional habits to form subconsciously that most definitely affect our life, our state of being – our peace of mind. After the healing of the emotional body, the conscious and subconscious may rest in the peace of the One Soul as the One Soul will raise it up unto itself, offering the Holy Spirit (intuition) as guidance.
When physical death occurs, the only thing to survive beyond thoughts, feelings and personal attributes is our light – our ability to love. Love (Spirit) being the expression of true Intelligence (Spirit). When it is time to reincarnate again, we do not so much bring ‘memories’ forward with us but our intensity of light and love. When this light expresses itself in physicality which IS mentalism (for all IS mind) it draws to itself the ‘darkness’ where there is no light. This darkness is experienced as life experiences that work to increase its light and ability to love. Remember the mental realm which the Incarnate Soul must pass through is dualistic. Which means it works by universal laws, such as cause and effect (karma), the law of gender, the law of rhythm, the law of Oneness, the law of vibration and so on and so forth. The mind or the mental realm MUST be dualisitc as it is the bridge between the Spiritual and Physical realms. Phyisical life needs two opposing forces to create life. A ‘big bang’ so to speak. This is how the invisible comes into the visible – through the duality of the mental realm. If the Incarnate Soul is great in light then the less darkness (Karma) it will attract. The less light there is the more karma it will attract. The mental realm (kama realm) is always seeking to balance itself between light and dark, spirit and soul, individual and collective etc etc. Eventually the mental realm collectively will be so full of light that it will be raised permanently into the higher realm of being where all light and dark forces are completely balanced – meaning without karma. Karma only occurs when there is an imbalance individually and/or collectively. Once the Incarnate Soul is able to take the full measure of Spirit being Soul (God) all realms of being are tempered and balanced. When this happens this is what is termed the second coming of Christ. When the collective (rather than an individual) come together as One being Many. Just like each cell in our brain is one of many but still One mind.
You expect Josh the Incarnate Soul to retain human characteristics after passing and this is not the case. The only thing that lives on is our ability to consciously love or be present in and of love. Love is Awareness. Love is Soul. Consciousness is presence or our I am-ness, our true Intelligence. This is true for other Souls who incarnate on other planets who will not resonate with the ‘human’ incarnation, yet they are Awareness just like we are when their life on whatever planet is over. Now I know nothing of said planets or other realms of existence. I just know our Father (Our one Consciousness) has many houses. No Soul wants to limit their being to merely one house, after death anymore than they would before it. Spiritual evolution is the differentiated Soul becoming conscious of itself as Nonconceptual Consciousness being expressed as Undifferentiated Awareness. Spirit in the Incarnate Soul is not present in its own Soul. Instead is it disembodied, living in the world of maya or illusion thought rising in itself as Consciousness. Consciousness + Conscious = Illusion/day dreaming. Consciousness + Awareness = reality or being.
Hi Tracy.
We have an awesome discussion here!
You state:
“Ask yourself my friend, who is the thinker behind the thoughts? The ego is a thinker, the Soul is a knower. If you trace every thought back to its origin you will see it is derived by the ‘I’ thought. All thoughts arise from the “I” thought. The false idea there is a thinker behind our thoughts but there is not one there. Just thoughts of a thinker. Don’t believe me? Trace every thought you have back to its Source. You will see there is no thinker there.”
To be completely honest I think this is the crux of our core difference, which will only circumnavigate us into endless side discussions simply because we disagree right here, with this main point. And as I related to Raymond, that’s okay, because I should not and cannot tell you you are wrong. You have to go with your path, and I so greatly respect that!
For me, we, as part of the human constitution, are in fact thinkers in evolution. In once sense we are not the thoughts themselves, but the power and producer of those thoughts. I believe we are the immortal “thinker” in evolution.
To sum up some of Theosophy’s greatest teachings (in my opinion :)), I will quote:
“The mind and the brain are not one and the same. The brain is only an organ, a material vehicle, through which the mind is able to function and operate on the physical plane. The mind does not require or use the brain when it functions on other, non-physical planes of existence. The brain only lasts for the duration of one lifetime but the mind continues on. The mind and the ability and action of thinking are something metaphysical, not physical or material.”
And…
“In Theosophy, the mind is often referred to by its Sanskrit name of Manas. This is actually the origin and root of the word “Man” and thus indicates how Man – the human being – is by his very nature and essence a mind and a thinker.”
If I may add, theosophical thinkers have delved deeply into this process of the sepentary nature of man, aligning with the 7 days of creation. And I believe they got it right! Not because they came up with something new, like many dogmatic religions, but because they simply understood the correlation and underlying wisdom at the root of every major religion known to man. When I studied the correlations, to me it was undeniable, so it lent an authority to maybe they could be correct. At first I tried to have an open mind, and so I had to prove it. One of the epiphanies I had that all major religions stemmed from one and the same source is when Blavatsky was able to tie in the Prometheus myth with the allegorical nature of Adam and Eve, and the fallen angles, Lucifer, the serpent, etc. Not only did she reconcile these correlations, but extended it out to the myths of the Norse and even American Indians, and show the common link between them all, beyond the efforts of the supposed “religious” scholars and it blew me away. So I delved deeper.
Here are some more quotes to consider, if you want to, in connection with the mind…
5th Principle – Manas – “a dual principle in its functions.” – “Mind, Intelligence: which is the higher human mind, whose light, or radiation, links the MONAD, for the lifetime, to the mortal man.” – “The future state and the Karmic destiny of man depend on whether Manas gravitates more downward to Kama rupa, the seat of the animal passions, or upwards to Buddhi, the Spiritual Ego. In the latter case, the higher consciousness of the individual Spiritual aspirations of mind (Manas), assimilating Buddhi, are absorbed by it and form the Ego, which goes into Devachanic bliss.”
Now just to show you how the Bible agrees with the above principle above, consider this scirpture:
“Who knoweth the spirit [ruach] of man that goeth upward, and the spirit [ruach] of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?” (Ecclesiastes 3.21 KJV bible)
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Do you see the correlation? I will get into this more in my second post. But this will take some time as I have a pretty busy schedule, but I will try to elaborate beyond a few scriptures:)
Now another quote from a theosophists:
“In the teachings of Theosophy, H.P. Blavatsky and the Masters describe the human being as consisting of Seven Principles, divided into a Higher Triad and a Lower Quaternary. These seven principles or seven parts of our nature are the divine part, the spiritual part, the intellectual part, the passional part, the vital part, the astral part, and the physical part. The first three of these comprise the Higher Triad and they last forever, while the lower four last just for one lifetime and are new in each lifetime that we have.”
Manas, the Mind Principle, is the connecting link between our pure, eternal, spiritual nature and our mortal, physical, material, personal nature.”
Having a background in Biblical studies, there is for me a great understanding here of the sepentary pricniple of man, which correlates much with Genesis, Paul’s Epistles, and Job, as well as I have related to Raymond, some Eastern religious texts and even the more less known great religions of the world. I cannot ignore this.
Now to get back to some of your other quotes:
“The mind that lives by the tree of knowledge must measure, discern, compare and contrast, relyins on past individual and collective memories to make the correct decision. There is a 50/50 chance of this person arriving to work in time. The mind that lives by the tree of life, intuits the best way to go with a 100% chance of getting there in time. Intuition gives us access to spiritual vision that is omniscient for it is omnipresent being the Inner I (and eyes) of all persons – all being and non-being. The mind that lives by the tree of knowledge has only their Inner I and experience to rely on, their own ‘person’. This state of mind is severely limited to the state of mind that does not take thought for itself but relies on Faith aka Knowing to Guide it. Awareness aka Soul is not a thinker. It is a knower.”
The immortal thinker is explained in Theosophy as the “knower.” But it is also the power behind the “thinker.” I will not repeat the philosophy of the higher mind vs. lower mind here, because I think we will disagree on our fundamentals leading to and endless mental chatter. But I will say this in quoting Blavatsky, and it goes deep if you care to read it. If not, perhaps someone here will on this blog. Anyway…
The serpent, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life, are all symbols transplanted from the soil of India. The Arasa-Maram (அரச மரம்), the banyan tree, so sacred with the Hindus (since Vishnu during one of his incarnations, reposed under its mighty shade and there taught human philosophy and sciences), is called the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life. Under the protecting foliage of this king of the forests, the Gurus teach their pupils their first lessons on immortality and initiate them into the mysteries of life and death. The Java-Aleim of the Sacerdotal College are said, in the Chaldean tradition, to have taught the sons of men to become like one of them. (…) for ignorance is death, and knowledge alone gives immortality. (…)
Now it may become comprehensible why the earliest Initiates and Adepts, or the “Wise Men,” for whom it is claimed that they were initiated into the mysteries of nature by the universal mind, represented by the highest angels, were named the “Serpents of Wisdom” and “Dragons;” as also how the first physiologically complete couples — after being initiated into the mystery of human creation through Ophis, the manifested Logos and the androgyne, by eating of the fruit of knowledge — gradually began to be accused by the material spirit of posterity of having committed Sin, of having disobeyed the “Lord God,” and of having been tempted by the Serpent.
So little have the first Christians (who despoiled the Jews of their Bible) understood the first four chapters of Genesis in their esoteric meaning, that they never perceived that not only was no sin intended in this disobedience, but that actually the “Serpent” was “the Lord God” himself, who, as the Ophis, the Logos, or the bearer of divine creative wisdom, taught mankind to become creators in their turn.‡ They never realised that the Cross was an evolution from the “tree and the serpent,” and thus became the salvation of mankind. By this it would become the very first fundamental symbol of Creative cause, applying to geometry, to numbers, to astronomy, to measure and to animal reproduction. According to the Kabala the curse on man came with the formation of woman. The circle was separated from its diameter line. “From the possession of the double principle in one, that is the Androgyne condition, the separation of the dual principle was made, presenting two opposites, whose destiny it was, for ever after, to seek reunion into the original one condition. The curse was this, viz.: that nature, impelling the search, evaded the desired result by the production of a new being, distinct from that reunion or oneness desired, by which the natural longing to recover a lost state was and is for ever being cheated. It is by this tantalizing process of a continued curse that Nature lives.” (Vide “Cross and Circle,” Part II.)
The allegory of Adam being driven away from the “Tree of Life” means, esoterically, that the newly separated Race abused and dragged the mystery of Life down into the region of animalism and bestiality. For, as the Zohar shows, that Matronethah (Shekinah, the wife of Metatron symbolically) “is the way to the great Tree of Life, the Mighty Tree,” and Shekinah is divine grace. As explained: This Tree reaches the heavenly vale and is hidden between three mountains (the upper triad of principles, in man). From these three mountains, the Tree ascends above (the adept’s knowledge aspires heavenward) and then redescends below (into the adept’s Ego on Earth). This Tree is revealed in the day time and is hidden during the night, i.e., revealed to an enlightened mind and hidden to Ignorance, which is night. (See Zohar I., 172, a and b.) “The Tree of the Knowledge of the Good and the Evil grows from the roots of the Tree of Life.” (Comm.) But then also: “In the Kabala it is plainly to be found that “the ‘Tree of Life’ was the ansated cross in its sexual aspect, and that the ‘Tree of Knowledge’ was the separation and the coming together again to fulfil the fatal condition. To display this in numbers the values of the letters composing the word Otz (עץ), tree, are 7 and 9, the seven being the holy feminine number and the nine the number of the phallic or male energy. This ansated cross is the symbol of the Egyptian female-male, Isis-Osiris, the germinal principle in all forms, based on the primal manifestation applicable in all directions and in all senses.”
This is the Kabalistic view of the Western Occultists, and it differs from the more philosophical Eastern or Aryan views upon this subject.† The separation of the sexes was in the programme of nature and of natural evolution; and the creative faculty in male and female was a gift of Divine wisdom. In the truth of such traditions the whole of antiquity, from the patrician philosopher to the humblest spiritually inclined plebeian, has believed. And as we proceed, we may successfully show that the relative truth of such legends, if not their absolute exactness — vouched for by such giants of intellect as were Solon, Pythagoras, Plato, and others — begins to dawn upon more than one modern scientist. He is perplexed; he stands startled and confused before proofs that are being daily accumulated before him; he feels that there is no way of solving the many historical problems that stare him in the face, unless he begins by accepting ancient traditions. Therefore, in saying that we believe absolutely in ancient records and universal legends, we need hardly plead guilty before the impartial observer…” (Helena Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Vol. 2., pg. 214-17).
Gidday Josh 🙂 It is as always an absolute pleasure to interact with you – discussing metaphysical principles. I have answered your reply here…..
Hi Tracy.
We have an awesome discussion here!
You state:
“Ask yourself my friend, who is the thinker behind the thoughts? The ego is a thinker, the Soul is a knower. If you trace every thought back to its origin you will see it is derived by the ‘I’ thought. All thoughts arise from the “I” thought. The false idea there is a thinker behind our thoughts but there is not one there. Just thoughts of a thinker. Don’t believe me? Trace every thought you have back to its Source. You will see there is no thinker there.”
To be completely honest I think this is the crux of our core difference, which will only circumnavigate us into endless side discussions simply because we disagree right here, with this main point. And as I related to Raymond, that’s okay, because I should not and cannot tell you you are wrong. You have to go with your path, and I so greatly respect that!
Me: Ah but Josh you cannot dismiss what I am saying here until you have ACTUALLY traced back the origin of your thought. Until you do this yourself you are speaking only from theory. Do it and disagree, do it and agree – either way you will have the experience to know I am right or wrong. I am speaking from experience. Theory and experience are two completely different realities. And I don’t mind you telling me how you think it is (and you have never been shy of doing this in our email exchanges LOL) because it does not change my experience or understanding 😉
For me, we, as part of the human constitution, are in fact thinkers in evolution. In once sense we are not the thoughts themselves, but the power and producer of those thoughts. I believe we are the immortal “thinker” in evolution.
Me: You will notice that if you trace every thought back to its origin there is not thinker there behind the thought. Just thoughts of a thinker Josh. There is no Spirit being Soul behind said thoughts and feelings. It is just the conscious mind aka Inner I rising in and of itself. A conscious mind that has no connection or consciousness of ones subconscious (Incarnate Soul), ones True Soul being Spirit (True intelligence or consciousness) nor of the present moment. They are just thoughts and feelings risen from a rogue mind unconscious of its true Self.
It is true that once upon a time we were only physical beings with untapped mental capabilities, even we are to believe scientific evolution. Then we evolved to another dimension of being within our being to incorporate the mental realm. This completely changed the way we operated and viewed ourselves in relation to our reality. Once again we are evolving from being merely two dimension – an animal of physical and mental capabilities to being a 3 dimensional being. Therefore the way we use our mind must change. It must change from being a thinking animal to a being animal that is guided by our higher true and eternal Self in and of Spirit. Knowing ourselves to be the Awareness behind thought and feelings created by the egoic mind, we tune into Knowing or Faith for our true Self is a knower, not a thinker.
Not to say thinking is redundant because it is not. Knowing must at some point be converted into knowledge – which does not take any time at all. It is a mechanical process that does not require arduous thinking. The mind must be held in a being state 90% of the time while in a thinking state 10% of the time. At least at this point in our evolution which is transiting from mentalism to Spiritualism.
You: To sum up some of Theosophy’s greatest teachings (in my opinion :)), I will quote:
“The mind and the brain are not one and the same. The brain is only an organ, a material vehicle, through which the mind is able to function and operate on the physical plane. The mind does not require or use the brain when it functions on other, non-physical planes of existence. The brain only lasts for the duration of one lifetime but the mind continues on. The mind and the ability and action of thinking are something metaphysical, not physical or material.”
Me: In other words you see the mind as the Incarnate Soul yes? If that is the case and it most certainly seems like it then you will realize that the mind aka to you as the Incarnate Soul, will not so much think as know. Awareness is knowing. The Incarnate Soul will know as much as it is able within its evolution in realizing the One Soul being Spirit as being its true Self. Think about it Josh. When the physical body dies along with the physical brain, you will not experience thought and feelings as you do not as their body of expression has returned to dust. You as the Incarnate Soul aka as Mind or Manas to you will be experienced as Awareness being Consciousness or Spirit being Soul. The conscious mind which is separated from the subconscious (therefore the door to Spirit) will come together as one. Time and space disappear. What you become conscious of you will experience in the Awareness of Soul.
And…
“In Theosophy, the mind is often referred to by its Sanskrit name of Manas. This is actually the origin and root of the word “Man” and thus indicates how Man – the human being – is by his very nature and essence a mind and a thinker.”
Me: But we are not man Josh, we are Spirit expressing ourselves through man or mind. You see mind as Cause and it is not. It is effect. The incarnate Soul is the effect of Cause….Cause being our Source – the One true Soul being Spirit.
You: If I may add, theosophical thinkers have delved deeply into this process of the sepentary nature of man, aligning with the 7 days of creation. And I believe they got it right! Not because they came up with something new, like many dogmatic religions, but because they simply understood the correlation and underlying wisdom at the root of every major religion known to man. When I studied the correlations, to me it was undeniable, so it lent an authority to maybe they could be correct. At first I tried to have an open mind, and so I had to prove it. One of the epiphanies I had that all major religions stemmed from one and the same source is when Blavatsky was able to tie in the Prometheus myth with the allegorical nature of Adam and Eve, and the fallen angles, Lucifer, the serpent, etc. Not only did she reconcile these correlations, but extended it out to the myths of the Norse and even American Indians, and show the common link between them all, beyond the efforts of the supposed “religious” scholars and it blew me away. So I delved deeper.
I would be more impressed Josh, if you gave me something more than simply your book learning. Something you had intuited yourself from experience. I am interesting in reality – not ones theory of it.
You: Here are some more quotes to consider, if you want to, in connection with the mind…
5th Principle – Manas – “a dual principle in its functions.” – “Mind, Intelligence: which is the higher human mind, whose light, or radiation, links the MONAD, for the lifetime, to the mortal man.” – “The future state and the Karmic destiny of man depend on whether Manas gravitates more downward to Kama rupa, the seat of the animal passions, or upwards to Buddhi, the Spiritual Ego. In the latter case, the higher consciousness of the individual Spiritual aspirations of mind (Manas), assimilating Buddhi, are absorbed by it and form the Ego, which goes into Devachanic bliss.”
Now just to show you how the Bible agrees with the above principle above, consider this scirpture:
Me: As you know I am not a big fan of our theosophy and Blavatsky – or perhaps it would be more apt to say that I am not a big fan of your interpretation of them. Your understanding of them to me is confused and lacking in first principles. It is not user friendly….who says manas lol? To sum up your parapgraph or to reiterate to put it in a more user friendly manner I would say, the mind or Incarnate Soul, when it knows itself beyond egoic thoughts and feelings (false self) merges with the true Soul (Buddhi) and becomes the Christ mind. In other words the Incarnate Soul is absorbed into the One true Soul. Moreover, this experience is described by many enlightened beings. The thinking mind must first become the being mind first however.
“Who knoweth the spirit [ruach] of man that goeth upward, and the spirit [ruach] of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?” (Ecclesiastes 3.21 KJV bible)
.
Me: Going up means holding a being meditative mind, while going down represents the thinking mind so I can hold with this verse.
You: Do you see the correlation? I will get into this more in my second post. But this will take some time as I have a pretty busy schedule, but I will try to elaborate beyond a few scriptures:)
Now another quote from a theosophists:
“In the teachings of Theosophy, H.P. Blavatsky and the Masters describe the human being as consisting of Seven Principles, divided into a Higher Triad and a Lower Quaternary. These seven principles or seven parts of our nature are the divine part, the spiritual part, the intellectual part, the passional part, the vital part, the astral part, and the physical part. The first three of these comprise the Higher Triad and they last forever, while the lower four last just for one lifetime and are new in each lifetime that we have.”
Me: So what you are speaking about is the Causative realms and the realms of effect. You clearly put the mind into the Causative realm whereas I see it as being part of the realms of effect UNTIL it has merged with the One Soul as Cause. My own interpretation of the Septenary man:
THE SEPTENARY MAN AND THE ORIGIN OF THOUGHT
Our physical body comes into being through a gradient of realms alternating between the male and female aspects of creation, starting with the Godhead or Monad that is a combination of both male and female attributes. The Incarnate Soul is a replica of the Godhead/Monad/Cause/Source but born of effect, starting within the Manas, Mind or Son born in the image of the Godhead or Monad.
The Causative Realms
The Godhead, Monad, Life or Now depending on your choice of words contains the Spirit and Soul as One. Conscious Awareness that is self-aware. The Monad is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. It is the Alpha and the Omega. It is both male and female and often referred to Nonconceptual Consciousness being Undifferentiated Awareness indicating that this realm is beyond the human mind to conceive of. All other realms of being exist within this realm
The first Causative realm is Spirit or Consciousness. No one knows what Consciousness is, where is it is or why it is, yet it is what we all identify as being. We are conscious. We are consciousness. This is our I am-ness. Our inner light. Our life or sense of existence. Consciousness cannot be grasped by the human mind as it is formless, therefore beyond the mind to know through conscious thinking outside of Awareness.
The second Causative realm is Soul. Otherwise known as Awareness, and inseparable to the First Cause, it is the expression, activity or body of Spirit or Consciousness. It is love. Love is the expression of true Intelligence. The One true Soul is also formless and beyond the human mind to comprehend through the caravan of thought.
The differentiation between Spirit and Soul or Consciousness and Awareness is what provides the magnetic pull that all other realms are built on. The 1st and 2nd Causes which are actually inseparable give birth to all other realm of being. They are the original Adam and Eve or Yin and Yang. Together they are the Monad/Godhead or Now.
The Realms of Effect.
The first realm of Effect being male energy, is the Son, and the 1st creative principle of the Incarnate Soul. It is often referred to as the 1st realm of mentalism or Manas meaning mind. It is a vessel for our true Consciousness or Spirit, which is our true Intelligence. It is the One mind of the Universe that contains within it all minds of the Universe. Just as the our one mind contains millions of brain cells so does this realm contain all Incarnate Souls. The Incarnate Soul that was born in the image of the One true Spirit. This realm is tethered to both the realm above it in the Buddhi realm, which is our true Soul and the one below it which is the karmic realm.
The kamaic realm being female energy is the 2nd creative principle which is a vessel for the Buddhi realm acting as a vessel for the One true Soul and an expression for the 1st creative principle found in the realm above it. The Kamaic realm gives birth to all animals, minerals and vegetables including us. It is the realm where every Incarnating Soul enters into an agreement with other Souls and life itself to live the life one most needs to expand in Consciousness so that this vessel may eventually bring forth the fullness of Spirit/Soul into physical life. Every time a Soul becomes Enlightened, this realm is raised up to the same frequency of love as the true Soul within the first creative principle of Effect aka mind or Manas. The coming together of the Manas and Kamaic realm acts as a channel for the One true Soul, the Buddhi realm to express itself through the Incarnate Soul.
The bible verse in mark 5:29 says the same thing but in a different way. “If I can just touch the hem of his garment, (Meaning if the awareness of my mind can just touch the outer edges of Spiritual awareness) I will be healed.” This was said by a broken woman who was looking for healing. Bleeding for 12 years, (At the end of her egoic cycle) she was considered an outcast. (Which meant she was free or outcast from the matrix and ready to be made whole again or liberated) The scripture records, “Immediately her bleeding stopped, and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering” (Mark 5:29) So this woman in this lifetime was born to awaken. Everything wakes in its own season, just like as it sleeps.
The prana realm, being of male energy, is the vital force that breathes life into all physicality coming into being.
Below this realm is the Astral realm, sometimes referred to as the Linga-Sarira, which is the pattern or blue-print for the body in the physical.
In time our physical awareness as a whole or collective ‘Awareness” will expand into the astral realm, and we will know ourselves beyond the rudimentary forms of physicality. In time, Telekinesis, telepathy, astral traveling, Claircognizance – all the natural and normal gifts of Soul will be rendered to Spiritual awake.
The next realm, referred to as the Sthula-sarira, is one we know very well for it is where our Conscious Awareness, whether a combination of Manas-Buddhi or Manas-Kama or a combination of both rests within our evolution both individually and collectively. The conscious mind, aka thought is a vessel for Consciousness while the subconscious is a vessel for Awareness which is expressed as Love and/or emotion. The Consciousness of Mind or Manas must be raised through the raising of the kamaic awareness rising to the Awareness of the One Soul aka Buddhi.
As you can see it is quite different from your understanding. After this post I will put up a post I did about the process of death that came to me intuitively as everything else does. I don’t see my truth in the outside work. I seek it from within.
You: Manas, the Mind Principle, is the connecting link between our pure, eternal, spiritual nature and our mortal, physical, material, personal nature.”
Having a background in Biblical studies, there is for me a great understanding here of the sepentary pricniple of man, which correlates much with Genesis, Paul’s Epistles, and Job, as well as I have related to Raymond, some Eastern religious texts and even the more less known great religions of the world. I cannot ignore this.
Me: Yes the mind is the bridge between the Spiritual and the Physical. You could say that it acts like a draw bridge. When it is up (rising in thought) it is disconnected to other side – its Source. When it is down it acts as a channel that reveals the true Self – that reveals life. It does not create it as you seem to think it does.
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
This is the holy spirit revealing the truth to the mind. The mind does not create truth Josh. The mind is not a creator but a revealer – a witness.
You: Now to get back to some of your other quotes:
“The mind that lives by the tree of knowledge must measure, discern, compare and contrast, relying on past individual and collective memories to make the correct decision. There is a 50/50 chance of this person arriving to work in time. The mind that lives by the tree of life, intuits the best way to go with a 100% chance of getting there in time. Intuition gives us access to spiritual vision that is omniscient for it is omnipresent being the Inner I (and eyes) of all persons – all being and non-being. The mind that lives by the tree of knowledge has only their Inner I and experience to rely on, their own ‘person’. This state of mind is severely limited to the state of mind that does not take thought for itself but relies on Faith aka Knowing to Guide it. Awareness aka Soul is not a thinker. It is a knower.”
The immortal thinker is explained in Theosophy as the “knower.” But it is also the power behind the “thinker.” I will not repeat the philosophy of the higher mind vs. lower mind here, because I think we will disagree on our fundamentals leading to and endless mental chatter. But I will say this in quoting Blavatsky, and it goes deep if you care to read it. If not, perhaps someone here will on this blog. Anyway…
The serpent, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life, are all symbols transplanted from the soil of India. The Arasa-Maram (அரச மரம்), the banyan tree, so sacred with the Hindus (since Vishnu during one of his incarnations, reposed under its mighty shade and there taught human philosophy and sciences), is called the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life. Under the protecting foliage of this king of the forests, the Gurus teach their pupils their first lessons on immortality and initiate them into the mysteries of life and death. The Java-Aleim of the Sacerdotal College are said, in the Chaldean tradition, to have taught the sons of men to become like one of them. (…) for ignorance is death, and knowledge alone gives immortality. (…)
Me: If you have ever looked at mans CNS and PNS and its complete network you will see it looks exactly like a tree. The tree of knowledge is taken from thinking – from an accumulation of memories both individual and collectively (The universal mind). One can learn this way, however it is painful, arduous and requires a lot of effort – and we do not often get it right as the world will testify to. The tree of life is living by intuition, inspiration, serendipity and synchronicity. We live by Faith which is knowing what to do in every moment as it arrives. I know from experience this is so Josh. I don’t have to take thought as you do, I dont have to scour copious texts and books looking for the truth. I simply ‘be still and know that I am’ – all answers to my questions simply come to me or come through me and I am their witness. I think write about them. That is not to say that you do not receive intuition yourself, just that it would be unconscious therefore limited and hard to decipher or be conscious of due to all the thoughts and feelings running around your noggin. On a side note I do qualify what comes to me with the greats – people who are enlightenment and who I respect both in present day and history. Mostly as it is important my books have good references when it comes out LOL.
You: Now it may become comprehensible why the earliest Initiates and Adepts, or the “Wise Men,” for whom it is claimed that they were initiated into the mysteries of nature by the universal mind, represented by the highest angels, were named the “Serpents of Wisdom” and “Dragons;” as also how the first physiologically complete couples — after being initiated into the mystery of human creation through Ophis, the manifested Logos and the androgyne, by eating of the fruit of knowledge — gradually began to be accused by the material spirit of posterity of having committed Sin, of having disobeyed the “Lord God,” and of having been tempted by the Serpent.
So little have the first Christians (who despoiled the Jews of their Bible) understood the first four chapters of Genesis in their esoteric meaning, that they never perceived that not only was no sin intended in this disobedience, but that actually the “Serpent” was “the Lord God” himself, who, as the Ophis, the Logos, or the bearer of divine creative wisdom, taught mankind to become creators in their turn.‡ They never realised that the Cross was an evolution from the “tree and the serpent,” and thus became the salvation of mankind. By this it would become the very first fundamental symbol of Creative cause, applying to geometry, to numbers, to astronomy, to measure and to animal reproduction. According to the Kabala the curse on man came with the formation of woman. The circle was separated from its diameter line. “From the possession of the double principle in one, that is the Androgyne condition, the separation of the dual principle was made, presenting two opposites, whose destiny it was, for ever after, to seek reunion into the original one condition. The curse was this, viz.: that nature, impelling the search, evaded the desired result by the production of a new being, distinct from that reunion or oneness desired, by which the natural longing to recover a lost state was and is for ever being cheated. It is by this tantalizing process of a continued curse that Nature lives.” (Vide “Cross and Circle,” Part II.)
The allegory of Adam being driven away from the “Tree of Life” means, esoterically, that the newly separated Race abused and dragged the mystery of Life down into the region of animalism and bestiality. For, as the Zohar shows, that Matronethah (Shekinah, the wife of Metatron symbolically) “is the way to the great Tree of Life, the Mighty Tree,” and Shekinah is divine grace. As explained: This Tree reaches the heavenly vale and is hidden between three mountains (the upper triad of principles, in man). From these three mountains, the Tree ascends above (the adept’s knowledge aspires heavenward) and then redescends below (into the adept’s Ego on Earth). This Tree is revealed in the day time and is hidden during the night, i.e., revealed to an enlightened mind and hidden to Ignorance, which is night. (See Zohar I., 172, a and b.) “The Tree of the Knowledge of the Good and the Evil grows from the roots of the Tree of Life.” (Comm.) But then also: “In the Kabala it is plainly to be found that “the ‘Tree of Life’ was the ansated cross in its sexual aspect, and that the ‘Tree of Knowledge’ was the separation and the coming together again to fulfil the fatal condition. To display this in numbers the values of the letters composing the word Otz (עץ), tree, are 7 and 9, the seven being the holy feminine number and the nine the number of the phallic or male energy. This ansated cross is the symbol of the Egyptian female-male, Isis-Osiris, the germinal principle in all forms, based on the primal manifestation applicable in all directions and in all senses.”
This is the Kabalistic view of the Western Occultists, and it differs from the more philosophical Eastern or Aryan views upon this subject.† The separation of the sexes was in the programme of nature and of natural evolution; and the creative faculty in male and female was a gift of Divine wisdom. In the truth of such traditions the whole of antiquity, from the patrician philosopher to the humblest spiritually inclined plebeian, has believed. And as we proceed, we may successfully show that the relative truth of such legends, if not their absolute exactness — vouched for by such giants of intellect as were Solon, Pythagoras, Plato, and others — begins to dawn upon more than one modern scientist. He is perplexed; he stands startled and confused before proofs that are being daily accumulated before him; he feels that there is no way of solving the many historical problems that stare him in the face, unless he begins by accepting ancient traditions. Therefore, in saying that we believe absolutely in ancient records and universal legends, we need hardly plead guilty before the impartial observer…” (Helena Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Vol. 2., pg. 214-17).
Me: In my opinion and with all due respect Josh, I feel you have misinterpreted a lot here and make what is simple complicated. Eve (the subconscious and Incarnate Soul) is deceived by the conscious mind (the egoic mind aka Satan) pretending and believing itself to be the true Self which is beyond thoughts and feelings as I have said. So eve manifests these egoic abominations into our physical world and they are seen as poverty, famine, war, murder etc etc.
After death you will be what you were before birth
– Arthur Schopenhauer
THE PROCESS OF DEATH
Moments before being pronounced dead, when all electrical activity has ceased, your whole life, from everything you thought, said, experienced and did will be presented to you in perfect clarity before one’s Inner I for review, assimilation, and fulfilment of Karma, releasing the Incarnate Soul from the multidimensional bonds tying it to this lifetime. Unlimited Spiritual vision illuminates the Incarnate Soul as it sits in the womb of the one Soul awaiting its time to be born again of Spirit. Consciousness being Awareness, the One true Soul sustains and nurtures the life of the Incarnate Soul aka Son, that is itself in turn, a vessel linking the Spiritual and Physical realms. During this time of close contact between the mother (One Soul) and Incarnate Soul, the Personal or Incarnate Soul, is able to see with perfect clarity the impact of one’s lived decisions and experiences, not only from a personal perspective but from the impersonal perspective of the One Soul that is mother to all Souls. The mother being the expression of the Father. The Cause behind all effect.
Meditation, like death is the expulsion of all thought and feeling which happens automatically when either Self-Realization or physical death occurs. The individual non-objective (beyond form) conscious awareness constituting the Incarnate Soul is all that it is left of one’s personal being once thoughts and feelings pass away, along with their body of expression. On death, the meditative mind is naturally assumed, leaving Spirit to finally become conscious of itself as Awareness or put another way, Spirit unites with its own Soul. This is easily done now that we as consciousness are not distracted by thoughts and feelings created by a false sense of self. Consciousness through the process of physical death or Enlightenment is no longer caught up in its the thoughts and feelings created outside its own Soul. It is no longer distracted by illusion of consciousness rising in consciousness, rather than awareness which is its own Soul. We have confused consciousness with awareness and that is a tragic illusion. An illusion that prevented Spirit or Consciousness uniting with Awareness – its very own Soul during its lifetime in the physical. The death of the physical body enables Consciousness to finally recognize itself as Awareness, bringing unification and alignment of both the individual Soul that acts as a channel or temple for the collective Soul that serves in and of Spirit.
One’s sense of “I exist” will never die. I am now always in all ways, whether conscious or unconscious in the totality of being – I am. Your sense of “I” however, your understanding and embodiment as Consciousness will vary and alter drastically. After physical death the Incarnate Soul, as Conscious Awareness, will evolve to include a fuller Presence of Being, individually, collectively and multidimensionally. One’s consciousness becomes more diverse, whereupon we know ourselves in all things, either personally or impersonally. Now that one’s consciousness being awareness is no longer limited and contained within the fractured and separated vessels of the conscious and subconscious minds, the Incarnate Soul is free to rise beyond the illusion of separatism. The conscious mind aka thought is a vessel for consciousness and the subconscious a vessel for the activity of that Consciousness expressed in and as the Incarnate Soul aka differentiated Awareness. Meaning a Soul that is apart but still a part of the One Soul. The differentiated or Incarnate Soul that is sustained by the One Consciousness being many. The more evolved the incarnate Soul, the more the One Soul is able to work through it, blessing all beings and non-beings.
The Incarnate Soul instantly reverts back to its original state of being before birth, which is differentiated Awareness being (present) intuitively meditative. A mind united is a pure temple or Channel for its true Self as Cause. Cause being Nonconceptual Consciousness being Undifferentiated Awareness or Spirit being Soul. For the Incarnate Soul that has just passed from physical a life, a state of being is now experienced outside time and space. Awareness is the essence of meditation. It is being. Rebirth is experienced as eternal and infinite peace and presence. A consciousness that is both personal (Incarnate Soul) and impersonal (One soul) for they are Cause and effect united as One. The degree to which the incarnate Soul is aligned with the One Soul determines the extent of free will experienced in and as the One of many.
Therefore, when we as the Incarnate Soul die physically our consciousness does not so much go anywhere, as consciousness is omnipresent. It has nowhere to go as there is nowhere it is not. Rather consciousness expands or wakes up if you like. The first experience of death will often feel as if one is above the body looking down on it. This is because the centre connecting one’s consciousness to the astral realm, where your true physical body is contained, is approximately 11 inches above our heads. This is the realm of time and space so you will still experience distance until you have left it and travelled up or into the Astral realm. This is where the Inner I resides. Between the physical and the astral. The Inner I, if in its pristine state is used to Channel Spirit. Apart from this phenomenon, there is nowhere for you as Consciousness to go, as there is no where .you are not, whether you realize this or not. Whether you sleep in and as Consciousness or are awake. Consciousness by its very nature is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Therefore, upon death, one’s Consciousness or reality of being, expands and constricts depending on its level of Conscious Awareness, rising or expanding in and as Presence multidimensionally. This change in Consciousness changes our understanding and experience of reality completely, just as it would for a blind man that could suddenly see. It is a profound moment of realization. A waking up from a dream that lasted a lifetime.
Upon the physical death of the Incarnate Soul, the first four realms that make possible a physical existence for any soul reincarnating into a new lifetime, revert from being directed by a personal consciousness to being directed by an impersonal consciousness of both the Incarnated Soul and the One Soul for they are One. Upon its rise back up within itself, the Incarnate Soul relinquishes the ties that bond it to this particular lifetime, starting with the physical, then rising to the astral, which sees the Incarnate Soul giving up the ghost, signalling the finality of physical death. Fate and karma have been played out, releasing the Incarnate Soul from its personalized consciousness in the physical. The Incarnated Soul can now only operate impersonally within this realm due to no longer having a personal vehicle.
At times a Soul can become stuck at this part of the death process due to their refusal to accept physical death. However, this does not last for long, as the astral realm that is the blueprint for the physical realm is supported by the Realm of Prana and Karma above which naturally revert back to the direction of impersonal consciousness once Incarnates Souls have come to the end of their physical life. This leaves the Incarnate Soul powerless. Unable to create either personally or impersonally in the astral realm it eventually gives up its ghost. The Realm of Prana breathes life into the astral and physical realms, as directed by the Karma realm above it which, with its fated hourglass calculates and informs the realm of Prana with how many breaths are needed for this particular lifetime to play out in the dream of the One Soul. The last breath signals the multidimensional transition of personal to impersonal states of Consciousness in regard to the physical, astral, Prana and Karma realms supporting the Soul now passing. This Incarnated Soul, now it has completed the death process is born again of Spirit that is Consciously all in one and one in all. Once the personal bonds of the Physical, Astral, Prana and Karma realms have dissipated the Incarnate Soul, depending on its level of evolution, is free from all illusion regarding separation and ready to rest in peace within the realms of the Christ, Buddha or Zen realms depending on your choice of linguistics.
The astral is where, on the odd occasion we experience Ghosts whose consciousness is in the process of transitioning from the personal to the impersonal but with great reluctance. This being the case these Souls are very limited in their ability to ‘personally’ affect physicality due to having no personal vessel to direct and the inability to be present impersonally due to not completing the death process. These Souls cannot rise in consciousness, completing the death process, until they relinquish their bonds to physicality, which brings them the illusion of separatism. The Incarnate Soul can now only act impersonally on the world stage, according to their light, for this realm is now under the direction of the One Soul which they have yet to embody. The One Soul being Love which is the expression of Spirit aka True Intelligence.
Having an effect on the physical world impersonally is difficult for many Incarnate Souls as it requires one to be highly evolved or highly conscious, therefore this is a powerless realm for the Incarnate Soul that lingers halfway through the physical death of spiritual birth because of personal attachment. One cannot behold the impersonal while clinging tight to the personal. Eventually loved ones convince the Incarnate Soul to embrace the death that births its true life in and of Spirit. Encouraged through the intelligence of love, the Incarnate Soul raises its consciousness further by relinquishing its personal bonds relating to the realms of Prana (breath) and the realm of karma that provided the contract made between Souls in the physical as well as the physical causes and effects, that made physical life possible.
Once the four realms have been transgressed, and one’s Karma laid to rest, the Incarnate Soul, being completely released from the ties that bound them to the lower physical realms, is now free to re-establish life aka Consciousness on both a personal and impersonal level of being within the Spiritual realms aka the realms of the Christ or the Buddha. They are still realms of effect however being the first principle of creation these Souls have the ability to be so clear a reflection that they merge as the One Soul itself, being Second Cause. Some realms contain only the teachers that come back to earth, other realms enlighten, and some contain a place of healing. Some contain those that sleep soundly and some that resemble a lunar eclipse in their wakefulness. There are seven realms containing seven realms of various states of consciousness, within the Christ or Buddha realms of being. The Incarnate Soul evolves through every one of them, drawn to their like. The higher realms belong to those Souls who have evolved to the point where they can merge in and as the One Soul while simultaneously being many. These Souls are the fullness of the Alpha and the Omega. One’s ability to intelligently (Consciousness) love (Awareness) both personally and impersonally, determines which realm the Incarnate Soul is most drawn too while evolving through effect, rising and falling in and as the ecstasy of One being many.
Physical matter cannot be destroyed or created, therefore once the Incarnate Soul’s form is no longer ‘personal’ in the lower four realms, it transforms or is transmuted into other forms that serve the one Universal Soul as Spirit aka One in many. Always the realms of effect seek to balance and harmonize, within their polarization of both the individual and Collective Soul as well as positive and negative elements of physicality. This is why when people pass on, they express themselves as a sign of nature, such as a flock of birds or as butterflies or perhaps an inanimate object dropping or being left somewhere peculiar, indicating that impersonal communication of some kind has been made by a Soul passed on. Many Incarnate Souls will not be able to direct this impersonal consciousness until they have completed the rebirth process and can embody both the personal and impersonal simultaneously. One’s presence must be deep in the love of and as Soul, to have any power in its direction. Being born again of Spirit requires an adjustment process just as it does when we are born into the physical. It takes 9 months in the womb for the Incarnate Soul to merge from the invisible to the visible. So, it is after death when one is born again of Spirit, rising through the realms of effect, to eventually rest in and of Cause or the realms of Christ, Buddha, Zen etc. To eventually rest in the One Consciousness being many.
Past personal lives are now felt both personally and impersonally with a love beyond words. The dream or perhaps nightmare of physical life, though painful at times, ultimately empowers the Incarnate Soul, along their evolutionary journey designed to reveal the fullness of the One Soul being Spirit in matter. Each lifetime expands that light, bringing us as One closer and closer to a collective Awakening in the physical. This expansion of light within the Son or Incarnate Soul in each evolutionary lifetime allows the One Soul/Spirit to experience the fullness of its Being more fully in on earth. As above, so below. Let the physical world reflect the Spirit world with perfect clarity. Spirit is the Unseen Potter. The wheel is the Soul. The clay is the son that reveals the Potters creativity. It is always the One Spirit being Soul which births the Son or Mind/Incarnate Soul – bringing the son up in and as their image. Our Incarnate Soul has a personal dream which is one with the impersonal Dream of the One Soul being Spirit. We are here to realize and reveal that dream within the dream. Love is the reason.
I got your latest reply in my email but its still not shown up here. I guess we did break the internet lol so I will answer it anway and it can show up in its own time.
You: LOL 🙂 Let’s break the internet, Tracy!
Me: I am always up for a challenge lol 🙂
You: And Raymond’s comment about crossing sabres.
Me: lol Ikr, I replied iron sharpens iron and I think the last couple of years with our back and forth emails, we have done exactly that. Sharpened our metaphysical principles and practices. We both come from such different backgrounds. NZ is pretty secular, whereas America is quite religious, so naturally our lingo and understanding of different concepts will differ. I am certain linguistics is half our problem in being able to agree on certain points. The other half you are definitely wrong but dont worry my friend – I am here for you LOL.
You:Too funny. It’s great we can agree to disagree, and agree, and disagree, which hopefully advances all our pitiful souls together 🙂 As long as we maintain that spirit of unity beneath and have fun along the way 🙂
Me:I feel blessed to have such a great mind and heart as yours to share this spiritual journey with. You have a beautiful Soul, which does along way to forgiving your deluded mind haha. LOL…I just can’t help myself. Messing with you is such great fun. In all seriousness, though I differ in views and tease you unmercifully, I absolutely respect you and your unabiding passion for metaphysics. I dont know anyone more devout, more concentrated and committed to understanding and discussing first principles as much as you so thank you my friend.
Me: I think we have learned a lot from each other. Lets keep doing that 🙂
I wrote this for my group a while back and I think it is pertinent to our discussion here so I will post it Josh. (I know it needs further editing but I it will do for now)
DEFINING PRESENCE
Presence is your Conscious Mind. It is your I am-ness. Your sense of existence. It is thought. It is your presence.
You know you exist, without any outside validation at all. There is nothing, no empirical evidence at all, that can prove you exist, yet you know you do. After all this could be a dream, however even if it was, you exist within that dream.
You don’t feel you exist. You don’t believe or think you exist. You know you exist. Knowing is not feeling nor thought. It is a separate experience altogether and one we must become familiar with in our lifetime/s if we are ever to have an intrapersonal relationship with ourselves in and of Spirit.
I am. I exist. This is your conscious mind, your presence of being. Your thinking mind. Consciousness itself.
Whatever you are conscious of, you give life too. In other words, whatever you give your attention to, you give life too merely by being conscious of it. If it exists within your consciousness, then it exists. Even if that existence is death.
Paradoxically, you are aware you exist, yet you are not conscious of being Awareness. You are both Consciousness and Awareness. Clearly then, consciousness has many states of being. There is sleep consciousness, there is awake consciousness, there is consciousness that has been altered by drugs. There is consciousness that is altered through meditation and medication. Obviously then, we can see that consciousness can either be restrictive or expansive depending on one’s level of awareness. Our job is to become as conscious of our Awareness as possible. Only by being present in the NOW, where the awareness of the Incarnate and One Soul reside can we truly know ourselves outside of theory and mentalism.
The time to believe God or Spirit is real is past. The time to know God or Spirit is real has come.
Awareness is the activity of consciousness, even when consciousness is not conscious of this activity of being awareness. To bring home this fact consider how one goes to a hypnotist to discover or uncover rather something we are aware of subconsciously but have no conscious recollection of it. You can see can’t you that consciousness operates quite differently and independently to Awareness. It should not independent. The both minds should be working in harmony with each other – fully conscious. One’s conscious mind, one’s I am-ness is not fully conscious if it has no idea whats in its subconscious. If it does not know its own Soul. If it does not know its own Spirit. If it cannot be present in the reality of NOW.
Now we are getting to the crux of it all. Now we are getting to the purpose of life which is to become more consciously aware – to realize the true Self. To expand in consciousness within the being of our Awareness. To become truly present in the Now. Now is another word for God or Spirit being Soul, or Consciousness being Awareness or any number of attributed names.
Awareness, being the Soul of all, is felt rather than thought. Consciousness is reflected as thought. Awareness is reflected as feeling. Our thoughts and feelings are reflections or our core Self, our true Self. Awareness is Soul and thought or Consciousness is Spirit. The two must come together as One. At the moment the conscious mind is only conscious of itself due to being lost in its own thought. It has very little consciousness of the subconscious. Next to none of the Soul and Spirit and of the present moment – very little.
Therefore, let us be conscious of our awareness, of what is in our subconscious firstly. For within the subconscious is the door to our Soul and Spirit. That door is the present moment. In the present moment the conscious mind is unable to become active, to rise in thought, therefore must keep very still within the presence of its own awareness. When the conscious mind does this, it expands – it becomes more conscious. Thought or mind (same diff) becomes one pointed and concentrated. When one keeps their presence in their own awareness, they also inadvertently keep it in the present moment and vice versa, for the Soul (Awareness) and life are One.
Now remember the subconscious (which holds what is also unconscious), which constitutes ninety five percent of our mind approximately, holds the emotional body. Therefore, awareness is felt. It is not thought. One must bring thought to awareness so that we can make the subconscious or the unconscious conscious. To bring life to the unconscious by virtue of our very presence in our emotional being. This is why Eckart Tolle says being must be felt, it cannot be thought. This is how we make conscious the unconscious. We bring our light, our presence (Spirit) of being to the awareness of the moment – to the very awareness of ourselves, our Soul. Meditation or praying without ceasing is so much easier when you feel the moment, when you learn to love the moment. Thought always stays where there is love.
Don’t be like so many who get to the end of your life and say, “Oh if only I had my time all over again”. The only reason people say that is because they were not fully present in the moment, with their children, with their loved ones etc. They were in their head thinking instead of being in the moment loving it, loving people or simply loving.
Remember as a small child the vibrancy of life? The colours, the smell? Everything seemed more alive. That is because you were being in the moment, rather than thinking in the moment. Your conscious mind was present in awareness – of the Self and the moment rather than thinking or daydreaming
To conclude, be present in the moment of Now. Be present in your own awareness of life. Feel your meditation. Feel everything you do throughout the day. Don’t numb life with drugs or food or sex or relationships. Don’t distract yourself by allowing the conscious mind to rise in its own thoughts that are not based in any reality that have anything to do with one’s subconscious awareness, Soul, Spirit or the Now. For a mind rising in one thought after another serves only itself and lives only in its own dream world. Be conscious of being awareness. Let your Spirit be present in your own Soul. Adam and Eve, the Yin and the Yan must come together
Hi Josh,
This conversation with Tracy and yourself has been one of the best gloves-off conversation here on SOS for a long time. I have to say, though, I think Tracy landed some really hefty blows, and that she deserves much credit for this – well done Tracy!!!
You state in the article, Josh,:
“This also explains the necessity of the lower mind experiencing its false personal self in the lower realms of matter. It has to TRANSCEND these limitations, or illusions, in order to KNOW itself”.
Yes, Agreed.
You then say:
“Do we now understand that God is a God of becoming? I AM THAT I AM means, when more correctly translated, I become that which I BECOME. As a man thinketh in his heart (Ne’Fesh – the vitality of life principle, Eve), he or she BECOMES.”
Some clarifications needed on this last section, Josh.
From the Upanishads, my understanding of: I AM THAT I AM, is, ‘I, and the Father, are (eternally) One’: that Higher Self is already I AM. But that this state of I and Oneness needs to be consciously realized, which we do by transcending, as you correctly say, Josh — when God the Son becomes united (in consciousness) with God the Father.
But, there is no becoming or improving on Higher Self, I AM, no becoming a more and more. But, that, “the becoming one” mentioned by biblical commentators, is ‘becoming’ what we choose to become in the relative world only, carried out under Aegis of ‘God the Holy Spirit’, the kundalini life-force – meaning, improving our careers, health and so on, should we desire so. But that the Self, or God the Father, does not undergo change, nor does It create anything, rather is the silent Witness.
The expression “I will become whatsoever I will become” is someone else’s literal translation – the words uttered were: I AM THAT I AM and do not necessarily mean, I will become whatsoever I choose to become’ – it’s too convenient and fits more literal driven mind and resonates with: ‘water will take the shape of any pipe’, or, in the relative phase of evolution, our physical life can take on whatever level or standard we choose, for such will be granted under law. But that’s really materialism, which suites more the literal agenda, which I’m sure you will agree, Josh.
But, it’s worth remembering, that, these words were uttered through a cosmically evolved soul, a Resolute established intellect, and that, ‘I AM THAT I AM’ resonates the Vedic tradition, (from where much of Christian scripture originates) which states: I am THAT, thou art THAT, and all this is THAT. Therefore, the word THAT is more pointing or referring to the Absolute, or Self, which state does NOT undergo change; the absolute state is eternally never-changing. Rather, it’s evolution, or Kundalini — referred to as God the Holy Spirit — which brings about change, but, that, the Holy Spirit, being the laws of nature, itself doesn’t change either – Truth doesn’t undergo change.
Thus, evolution, or the kundalini, is the ever-changing force, but, that, ‘God the Father’ doesn’t change, rather, is the silent Witness. God the Father is THAT, or I AM, already – He doesn’t BECOME anything, and when we speak of Unity consciousness, it’s really one’s own Awareness united back with God the Father. He, God the Father, does not become realized or subject to evolution in the relative world, He is already Complete, He is the eternally never-changing — the Absolute. He already is the ALL, the eternal Bliss which we’re each seeking. But that through the Holy Spirit, or evolution, our mortal mind or lower-self and physicality is facilitated to undergo Matter change, or transformation unto higher spiritual realms within our own consciousness known as the Resurrection (of consciousness); lower-self becomes Realized Higher Self, thus knowingly Realize “I AM THAT I AM” within, consciously.
Thanks again Josh and Tracy for this great conversation, blessings.
Raymond,
Thanks also for this reply. And yes, I love Tracy’s commitment to the path to truth. She’s quick witted and can fire right back. She never shies away from expressing her truth, which I respect greatly, even though I disagree with some of her points. And as I said before, I agree with so many. But in the limited act of explaining things here among each other, I have learned that sometimes we “think” we are understanding what the other is truly saying, as they are experiencing it, but oftentimes we do not, and so we misinterpret each other’s words. This is natural, and I think its possible that Tracy and I are both guilty of that sometimes, as we all are. How can one truly explain an experience in limited words anyway? It’s all an intellectual exercise, and while words have great power, their meaning always experience some limitations between the two communicators of them. Our hope is that we learn to better express truly clarity of thought by choosing words more carefully and expressing them better and better as we learn to. And even then, we can’t help the fact that the other person may not receive that clarity, and this may be our fault or theirs.
Now to address your comments specifically. I completely agree that that immutable principle as the higher self you are speaking of as THAT, is of course not limited in any way, and cannot be, or it would not be the one absolute (probably the closest word we can conceive of to describe something which none of us truly understand!) 🙂
The phrase, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh,” or in English, “I am that I am,” is a big problem for scholars because Biblical Hebrew doesn’t really differentiate grammatical tenses. Scholars have debated for years over what proper rendition should be in English. Some state it equates to “I am without equal,” while others state it just means “to be,” while others state “I become.” The rabbit hole goes deep, and each individual mind will probably most identify with the scholar of choice based on their individual understanding, which I admit, I must do also 🙂
While the pure spirit or immutable principle is above all defining, and not limited in anyway, what I mean by becoming is that a limited perception of it (always limited) is cognized through the manifestation that this immutable principle throws off. It is truly immutable because it contains the inherent power of infinite potencies. But those latent potentials have to be individualized (not personalized) by “becoming.”
These potencies, while inherent in the immutable law, are fictions or abstractions to us on the human plane until they are cognized, or self-realized, and this is the act of God “becoming,” through us and in us. Taken in the Biblical context, we often see this same God changing his mind and “repenting” from his actions of punishment through the pleading of the inner I AM of Moses. This is significant if we are to understand this phrase in its Biblical context. Also we have statements in the Bible such as no man has seen God face to face, but we also have the statement that God talked to Moses face to face as a friend to another. And then we have the instance where Moses, the meekest man of all the earth, asks God to see all his glory, and God tells him this can never be, but he states you can see my “backside” as I pass by the mountain and you are in the cleft of a rock observing. So many deeper esoteric meanings here 🙂
This process of “becoming” doesn’t limit the true SELF ITSELF, as “THAT,” the terminology you used. The “becoming” aspect is simply a limitation of this infinite potential, so that it can eventually cognize limited aspects of itself, and this is “becoming” cognizant of those potencies, in stages. As Annie Besant once said, The Self realizes itself in greater and greater degrees by transcending the “not-self,” and so in this process the mind becomes the slayer of the real.
One important analogy which may help to put this in perspective, at least the perspective I am trying to relay, would be that there are three aspects of this limitation:
1) The universal
2) The individual
3) The personal
By personal I mean the personality, which is stuck in separation, fear, and such, which fragments the ray of truth. The individual is above this, but the individual mind has the ability to cement itself and become one with the universal mind when it has learned to transcend the personal. At first the individual mind is “limited” by the personal mind, and when it transcends this, it becomes an “individuated” aspect of the universal mind without the personal, or carnal thinking mind.
To make a connection with this limited concept Raymond, as we know Samadhi is so mysterious because that while it experiences the “universal,” it still remains the individual, without the personal limitations. I don’t know if that makes sense, but perhaps it will.
Thanks, Josh for this reply and clarifications.
First, two concluding insights on ‘becoming’.
The mind, having transcended many times, at least once or twice daily for a reasonable period of weeks or months – depending on regularity and purification gained — retains this purity, this expanded awareness, this state of Unity or Bliss-consciousness even in the waking, dreaming and deep sleep state. The mind has now ‘become’ IT-Nature or, THAT-Nature or God-Nature, which bliss state we shall know experientially beyond need of others’ validation.
But, no matter how many times we choose to reincarnate. It’s from this earth planet we must return on each incarnation. And of course, we can go around this cycle as many times as we choose, but must accept the ‘suffering’ or learning that goes with each re-visit.
It’s the conditioned mind-sets, or deep-rooted contents which form the subconscious mind which needs neutralizing, for such is how the mind /soul is liberated, made free and whole again. Once the subconscious aspect is made conscious, becomes integrated through regular mental silence meditation, we will then see/hear the world /universe spiritually: experience from the higher heart chakra or, the Higher love awareness.
Achieving this outcome is the essence of all the major scriptures, and is not difficult..
finally, Josh, with the utmost respect, this last piece sounds unnecessarily complicated for beginner readers.
You state:
“To make a connection with this limited concept Raymond, as we know Samadhi is so mysterious because that while it experiences the “universal,” it still remains the individual, without the personal limitations. I don’t know if that makes sense, but perhaps it will.”
.
Not really, Josh.
The reality is, in the Transcendent state, the individual no longer exists as an individual self, but which self is regained post meditation, but this time infused of bliss, more purified and expanded in awareness. Each meditation thus purifies more and more, when the deeper mind expands resulting in integration of subconscious sin standard, thus is when permanent cosmic consciousness.becomes established.
As always, Josh, blessings.
Exactly. One is not a drop in the ocean, one is the ocean in one drop. Thinking is personal. Being is impersonal. Being a drop in the ocean is the egoic mind set. Being the Ocean in one drop is the true or Christ mind that is Spirit being Soul.
Interesting comments, Raymond. Thank you.
You state: “But, no matter how many times we choose to reincarnate. It’s from this earth planet we must return on each incarnation. And of course, we can go around this cycle as many times as we choose, but must accept the ‘suffering’ or learning that goes with each re-visit.”
We certainly see things differently here, which is okay, of course 🙂
I don’t think we can “choose” to return or not return until a certain stage of higher Samadhi is reached. This comes from my personal study of Pantanjali’s Yoga Sutras, and a blending of Theosophy’s teaching of Manas (or the mind), both lower and higher aspects, with of course Buddhi (the Christian equivalent) and Atma. I found both many of the Eastern and Western accounts of many traditions too limiting as to explaining causes for such processes, as certain “why’ questions were never answered with satisfaction. But this is my opinion, of course 🙂
You also state:
“Finally, Josh, with the utmost respect, this last piece sounds unnecessarily complicated for beginner readers.”
“Not really, Josh. The reality is, in the Transcendent state, the individual no longer exists as an individual self, but which self is regained post meditation, but this time infused of bliss, more purified and expanded in awareness.
I admit Raymond, it is complicated in many respects. I had to put in a lot of study hours and meditating on these principles, but I couldn’t ignore the epiphanies that came through this process, at least for me in answering some of the deepest causes I could probe.
For me, learning how the mind (Manas) is the connecting link between the spiritual soul (Atma – Buddhi) and the animal soul (the lower manas acting what we term personality) resolved so many issues for the “why’s” and “how’s) of life. It allowed me to see in evolutionary process how the lower quaternary of man (the mortal aspect) and higher triad (the immortal aspect) functions and evolves.
But I was glad I put in the work, because for me it opened up the Bible and the Bagavad Gita in ways which I could not have seen without it! So it was certainly for me in my personal walk, which of course is not better or worse than someone else 🙂
The personal, individual, and universal aspect of the soul, is of great importance to me in being able to explain the causes behind karma, reincarnation, rationality, intuition, etc. Complicated as it may be, it was a path I had to delve into. I guess I have always been that person that has to take “why” to everything of the enth degree, and even when epiphanies come in a meditation experience it will open up more yearnings and questions that I have to further explore.
Thank you again for the continued discussion and great dialogue, as always 🙂
Raymond, I also wanted to place this quote here (much better than I could do), of why understanding the difference between the personal, individual, and universal is so important:
“In The Secret Doctrine, Mme. Blavatsky tells us that she has spent a considerable part of her life in studying the hidden meaning of all ancient myths both sacred and profane. For these myths are allegories in which are embodied certain universal truths with regard to the life and history of man. She tells us that “without the help of symbology — with its seven departments, of which the moderns know nothing — no ancient Scripture can ever be correctly understood”.
The Grecian myth of Prometheus is one of the most interesting and important of the ancient legends, because it relates to the turning point of the great cycle of evolution, the coming of self-consciousness to man. It symbolizes the emergence of the race from the state of childhood, when good and evil were alike unknown, when the harmony of nature was as yet unbroken, because the individual man had not as yet realised himself as a separate entity. For the race as well as the individual has passed through the stage graphically described by Tennyson: —
“The baby new to earth and sky
What time his tender palm is prest
Against the circle of the breast,
Has never thought that “this is I:”
But as he grows he gathers much,
And learns the use of “I “and “me”.
And finds “I am not what I see,
And other than the things I touch.”
With regard to this individualizing process, The Secret Doctrine says:—
“The Ocean of Matter does not divide into its potential and constituent drops until the sweep of the life-impulse reaches the evolutionary stage of man-birth. The tendency towards segregation into individual Monads is gradual, and in the higher animals comes almost to the point.”
This realising of one’s self as a separate entity is the sin of separateness, but it is also a necessary step before the path of renunciation can be entered. One cannot give up that which one is not conscious of [Page 4] possessing. The force of individuality is said in Vasudevamanana to be that “which prevents all except Ishwara and Atmajnahis (those having wisdom of Atma or ‘Self’) from realizing the differences between Atma and the five sheaths by enveloping such personages with intense mist”.
And again: —
“Of the tree of mundane existence it is the effects of Avarana Shakti (individuality) that form the root. . . . And it is this Avarana Shakti alone that is also the cause of final emancipation.”
The idea of man as an individual is then the first key to the legend of Prometheus.
Raymond, as I related in an earlier comment, when I understood the legend of Prometheus against the Genesis narrative, so many things became clear as relating to the ancient scriptures being in unison of truly getting to the bottom of the personal, individual, and universal. So much of the true origination of the Eastern and Western scriptures have been diluted with modern New Age teaching which leaves out the causes as understood in their true original perspective. Again, just what I see, but to me quite important and potent to answer the deeper mysteries of why for so much 🙂
Thanks, Josh, much appreciated. Some really great comments and insights emerging since SOS has come back on, particularly from the last two articles.
Thx Raymond. Josh and I both have iron wills so when we clash, we clash lol, however this is a good thing for iron sharpens iron. We both go to great depths to embody and understand truth beyond the subjectivity of mentalism/physicality, for irrespective of our differences, as brother and sister in Spirit, we both seek the same truth. A truth we love to share with our respective audiences. Metaphysics for us both is a passion – or more aptly – a calling. What is true for one is true for all. We may all have different seasons, different paths leading to the ‘Well’, however there is only one ‘Well’ and we all drink from that One Well eventually. Just as every cell within the brain is a part of the mind,(Egoism being apart from the One mind) it is also the One mind itself. One being many.
OK, Tracy, thanks for the comment. Hopefully Josh and your good-self will be crossing Sabres again soon here on SOS. Some really great insights emerged from both sides. When Josh revealed yesterday that both of you were really good friends, wow, what a relief that was.
Blessings.
Yes it was a relief for me too lol. I have a group of about 150 000 that I post for, so I know when someone new comes into our group and squares off with me, my usual punters of course are quite loyal and stick up for me even if I might be wrong (Im not tho hahaha) and I knew Josh would have the same loyal following, so yeah I was waiting for my feelings to get hurt and sure enough it happened 😛 Naturally I emailed Josh sulking and Josh being the dear friend he is, made nice and put it all in perspective
I should imagine hes in the process of writing a reply to both of us now as hes not one to let points he made that have been challenged go…..lol
LOL 🙂 Let’s break the internet, Tracy!
And Raymond’s comment about crossing sabres.
Too funny. It’s great we can agree to disagree, and agree, and disagree, which hopefully advances all our pitiful souls together 🙂 As long as we maintain that spirit of unity beneath and have fun along the way 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nP5oedmzkM
Hi Raymond, I noticed you mention The Upanishads and thought you might appreciate a post I put up for my page and group based around a quote that I am particularly fond of. I know from your interaction with Josh that you will get it. At least I hope so lol
God made the senses turn outwards, a man therefore looks outwards, not into himself. But occasionally a daring Soul desiring immortality, has looked back and found himself.
– The Upanishads
YOUR ‘I AM-NESS’ IS ETERNAL
Your inner ‘I’ – your sense of existence, your knowing I AM, your conscious mind aka thought, is what you must hold single. Meaning hold the mind as a single thought rather than letting it rise into a stream of thoughts called ‘thinking’. One thought held single is called ‘ Present Conscious Awareness’. The conscious mind – our sense of being present must always be present in our Souls awareness that is always present in and of the moment.
Therefore, our inner I is present in and of Soul being Spirit while our outer eyes of flesh are present in the moment of physicality or if you like the conscious presence of being in our subconscious, which is our Incarnate Soul, is always in all ways sitting in the One soul which is also the Now.
Doing this is apperceiving. One subconscious or Incarnate Soul is in the moment while ones inner “I” (Conscious mind) is intuitively receptive as thought, always in all ways listening for guidance from on high (unless one is realized in which case one is ONE with Spirit). In this manner one’s eyes of flesh take in what the inner “I” has created or brought forth into the physical world.
One does not inform the inner I with the eyes of flesh that behold the world, for whatever the conscious mind or the inner I beholds and accepts as true, it creates. You will be recreating history otherwise. Do you see?
We create life from the inside out, not the outside in. One’s Spirit – one’s Soul creates life. One Spirit being Soul uses the meditative Inner I or conscious mind aka thought to inform and guide us so that we create the world from the inside out rather than recreate the world from outside in. This correct state of mind in turn reveals the truth, it does not create it. The mind does not create life it reveals it. It reveals it as Spirit being Soul aka God is the Apha and the Omega – all that can be created has been.
If the mind does try to create life through beholding what the eyes of flesh look out upon, it creates life from the mental realm of duality and death, as opposed to the Spiritual realm of everlasting life. The mind is finite and limited; it is effect. Spirit is not; it is cause. Spirit is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient; it is the Alpha and the Omega. Therefore turn your Inner I around and look behind and beyond egoic thoughts and feelings and look to your Inner Awareness of Being Soul that sits in and as the One Soul being Spirit.
Totally get it, Tracy Thank you so much for post. Indeed, the journey is within, thereby getting to ‘know’ That, I AM (or) God within consciousness. That Divine Nature whereby our consciousness reflects It in our every thought, word and deed, daily, and effortlessly: when our inner divine Church, our spiritual Awareness, beams out in to the world as a beacon for others. Thus inner consciousness development is our prime purpose activity on this earth plane. Thanks also for your spot-on extended comment. Great stuff.
Blessings.
Yeah, I knew you would get it 🙂 It is a pleasure to meet a kindred Spirit. Life is all about realizing the true Self whether we are conscious of this or not. This can’t be done through theory, it must be done through the actual experience of BEING Soul/Spirit.
I know you probably won’t need the following post but I am going to post it anyway incase anyone reading this thread does for the right use of mind is really all that is needed to realize the true Self once we get to that pivotal point of being more interested in where thoughts come from and what they are rather than what they contain.
If concentration is made with the brain senstations of head or a headache will ensue. Concentration has to be made with the heart, which is cool and refreshing.
– Sri Ramana Maharshi
CONCENTRATED FEELING IS MEDITATION
Please bear in mind what Sri Ramana Maharishi is saying while meditating or practicing moving meditation (mindfulness). The mind is composed of both the conscious mind (thought 5%) and the subconscious mind (feeling 95%).
Many people forget about their emotions having to be just as calm & centred as their thoughts. Both are mind. One’s emotions are an expression of their thoughts. Just as thunder is an expression of lightning.
It is the subconscious that holds the conscious mind steady in the NOW. In the same way someone or something we love captures our attention and holds it.
How long does one stay in a place if there’s no love, no heart, no feeling? Exactly right, not long, so do not leave the subconscious mind out of one’s meditation practice.
One’s attention (attending presence) aka conscious mind or ‘thought’ has to sit in the present moment Awareness of the subconscious. There must be no discrepancy between them. Only total harmony. This cannot be achieved if the mind is still rising in thought for each though holds the potential to be at war with another thought that rises, dividing the house, while causing the emotional body to respond in kind which in turn chemically bombardes the body with stress hormones. No one wants to visit a house that is at war itself. Certainly not ones true Soul being Spirit.
The difference between attention and awareness is this: You are aware you are a female living in New Zealand in the year 2022, while your attention is focused on the room you are in on a particular subject. Awareness is expansive and attention restrictive or focused. The conscious mind, which is our attention acts more like a camera taking snapshots of life, calling them today tomorrow and yesterday while the subconscious mind, which is our awareness, acts more like a continuous video that lives ever in the Now.
Note that in holding one thought and feeling we starve all other thoughts and feelings. Once one thought is held it expands into the Spiritual realm rather than rising into the mental realm. You know this is true from your own experience now. If you are listening intently to one person, all other sounds fade out and stop bothering you.
When you meditate let your sense of presence originate or sit in the chest area, radiating outwards. In other words, feel the moment. Feel intuition coming to you, instructing you. Feel it move from the chest area to the mind. Let this feeling translate itself into thought. You could liken this sense of presence or existence to when you hear an intruder in the middle of the night, and you get up in the dark “Listening with your whole body”. Not just your head. Not just your five basic senses. Rather it’s an all over sensory – ‘feeling the room’ type of experience. Do that. That is how you meditate. Do not be all up in your head. You will hypnotize yourself for nothing or grow to despise the practice.
Remember you cannot make yourself relax, you LET or ALLOW yourself to relax – the same principle holds true for meditation. Liken it to sleep. The more you try to make yourself sleep the more sleep eludes you. No, you must allow yourself to relax first and if sleep comes it comes, if it doesn’t then you are at least relaxed which is almost as good as sleep. The same applies to floating. The more we try to float the more we sink. When we give ourselves up to the ocean, we float.
Thank you for these reflective words, Tracy.
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Just to add some of my own journey /meditative revelations, if I may.
I remember, some years ago, while attending a yoga seminar, when after all the hours of beautiful healing words and amazing insights were mentally assimilated, the single phrase that stood out most vividly for me was: ‘while out walking, ‘hear’ what you hear and ‘see’ what you see without ‘thinking about’ what your hearing and what your seeing. This ‘hearing /’seeing’ practice of course represents the practice of mindfulness meditation as outlined in your comment here.
In supporting this practice understanding, we have this wonderful scripture, Mark 7:31—37 of Jesus healing the blind and mute man/mind. The pivotal section is 7:33 which reads: “So Jesus took him (the mute mind) off alone, away from the crowd…” this is referring to the practice of meditation and transcendence – the crowd of course meaning one’s compulsive thoughts, the turmoil of one’s inner conflicts, the mental prison which biblical Peter walked free from when the lower-ego was stilled, fell asleep or inactive – Peter’s consciousness was gradually transformed unto unconditional faith nature: faith meaning, perceptions of the Heart as opposed to logic and reason of the lower carnal mind.
In other words, because of its direct bliss nature, transcendence and meditation allow the mind enter the realm of higher faith, the higher spiritual plane where reason and logic are redundant. Higher faith thus is a level of all-fulfilling consciousness beyond a faith based on human carnal logic — when higher faith is experienced as Self-Presence as separate from outer activity.in the relative world.
So, in Mark, the words ‘blind’ and ‘mute’ are meaning the same ignorance: the human soul’s inability — prior to soul /mind awakening — to perceive spiritually and faithfully its own true eternal nature.
In meditation, kundalini rises up along the spine and enters the 4th heart chakra, or New Jerusalem — domain of divine love. The kundalini life-force continues on into the troth 5th chakra, thyroid gland, culminating in the brain, thereby awakening the 6th /7th chakras, the Pineal and Pituitary glands. This completes the initial cycle of kundalini rising from the base of the spine (the Rod) up into the brain – the intended process of awakening the spiritual centres.
But, now commences the vital work of expressing these awakened centres through the nervous system, the human physiology, thereby establishing divine Nature AS our consciousness, for, the experience of bliss alone in the mind is not sufficient, it must be expressed outwards as conscious awareness for such to become permanent in consciousness as unconditional love. And, also, that, intellectual knowledge of spiritual matters feeds only the mind – it too is not sufficient, whereas, direct experience of transcendental bliss/ love in expression feeds the Heart – thus, both experience and expression are necessary for our full spiritual integration leading to Unity consciousness.
Prior to inner awakening, we’re each, to some degree, rooted in the blind/ mute soul-soil, of hearing /seeing through the inherited ‘original sin’ state of spiritual ignorance. So, Jesus — the higher spiritual Principle healed /awakened and transformed the non-soul-serving aspects – the asleep spiritual centres — which were blocking direct perception of our true eternal bliss /cosmic nature.
Now our risen soul /spirit-Awareness is perceiving and understanding directly through the Higher Self perspective. Thus, through regular and sustained meditation — and its subsequent expression post meditation — such forms the conscious awareness of our eternal life status within our own consciousness.
Blessings, Tracy.
Thank you so much for your beautiful and accurate rendition of the road less travelled. Completely on point! (In my humble not so humble opinion rofl) When you said, “while out walking, ‘hear’ what you hear and ‘see’ what you see without ‘thinking about’ what you’re hearing and what you’re seeing.” it completely resonated with me as it was a pivotal turning point for myself also. In my own words it was being deeply present in and of the moment. I say in as a mind and of as Spirit. For though we are in the world we are not of it 😉 . In order to BE one must cease thinking for the two always cancel each other out, so I completely get why this was something that stuck out in your mind enough to write about it. It is the cornerstone to all ontological practices and principles. I would love to share this with my group if that is okay with you? Of course, I would attribute it to you. If, however that is not possible then I completely understand and would never take offense. Thank you again for sharing such beautiful insight into these first principles that align and represent these biblical passages.
On a side note my words are not so much reflection as intuitive. I am simply sharing my own awakening process for whoever wants to hear it. I have not awakened – I am in the process – just like everyone else whether they are conscious of this or not 😉 I write these words and learn from this along with everyone else reading them lol. Then I live what I write if that makes sense, and it should do as you alluded to it in your post – Quote ” it must be expressed outwards as conscious awareness for such to become permanent in consciousness as unconditional love. ” Unquote.
Thank you for this really nice reply, Tracy, And, yes, of course, you’re more than welcome to share the post with your group, Go for it!!
In your comment, you mention ‘awakened’ and ‘awakening’. I just love these words. So, if I may add some additional insight.
As I see it, we initially ‘awaken’ to the realization that we’ve been asleep for all of our incarnations up until this first birthing of inner spiritual awareness or, awakening unto our soul consciously: awakening from the deep sleep of generational spiritual ignorance and all its falsity,
Initial birthing of spiritual awareness attunes one’s awareness to the upsurging of soul intuition, or in-tuition, meaning, teachings from within: Insights which support evolution of the lower intellect unto capacity realms of higher understanding and spiritual discernment.
In other words, due to the laws of nature — and there being no end to evolution — awakening or, evolution, continues eternally,.
Soul awakening thus is really another term for conscious evolution as opposed to unconscious evolution or, biblical ‘suffering’. For, while being spiritually asleep, the soul is still evolving unconsciously — living our Heaven unconsciously — living without ability of choice through generational retention of subconscious programming.
With there being no point where evolution ceases, thus there can be no term, post initial awakening, called ‘fully awakened’ . But, by daily meditation and transcendence, we can each reach the highest point of human evolution on this earth plane by awakening and experiencing through the inner faculties. Such provides a springboard-state of soul purity — expansion of consciousness — which becomes established, resulting in catapulting the human soul out of lower carnal orbit unto Higher planes of Divine Existence.
As we’re each journey-soul channels in evolving consciousness, thus, whatever level of evolution soul attains or gains in this realm of Matter, it retains for further expression in Higher Planes of consciousness.
To this outcome — as vessels of establishing eternity consciousness and the Will of God — earth and the human body are the gateway outlets to further our soul’s evolution unto greater planes of Existence.
Blessings, Tracy, and Good morning to you too there in sunny New Zealand.
.
Raymond,
Some very important concepts you relay here which I also wanted to respond to. I enjoyed how you pointed out that there is a limit to the human evolution of consciousness, and there will be further evolution of consciousness and awakening beyond the human kingdom which is an ever-going process.
This is why I believe it is important that the son being one with the father is actually referring to the lower mind and higher mind becoming one, and the pure sense of mind, or “I-ness” is recognized beyond it’s personal ego. Manas, or the mind, is pure in it’s original state as the pure ray from Atma. When it assimilates Buddhi (the holy equivalent of the Holy Spirit), it becomes lit with the fire of universal consciousness, which in the Bible is known as baptism of fire (not water), where all elements of the lower ego are purified of the dross, and awareness of a truer sense of reality is revealed. While manas is assimilated or absorbed into Buddhi (or we could say when Buddhi absorbs Manas), then the sense of “I-Ness” in it’s pure form (which is not Buddhi) realizes it’s true nature as part of the universal reality. And so then we have the concept, if I may, of Buddhi-Manas, known in some eastern traditions as the radiant manas or mind beyond intellect and rationality, but rather than combination of rationality with unity, or love, and becomes wisdom, or intuition.
Thank you, Josh, enjoyed reading this comment, lots of meat and advanced insight in there.
I liked how you put this:
“This is why I believe it is important that the son being one with the father is actually referring to the lower mind and higher mind becoming one, and the pure sense of mind, or “I-ness” is recognized beyond it’s personal ego.”
Blessings
You: Thank you for this really nice reply, Tracy, And, yes, of course, you’re more than welcome to share the post with your group, Go for it!!
Me: Thank you so much. You are kind!
You: In your comment, you mention ‘awakened’ and ‘awakening’. I just love these words. So, if I may add some additional insight.
As I see it, we initially ‘awaken’ to the realization that we’ve been asleep for all of our incarnations up until this first birthing of inner spiritual awareness or, awakening unto our soul consciously: awakening from the deep sleep of generational spiritual ignorance and all its falsity,
Initial birthing of spiritual awareness attunes one’s awareness to the upsurging of soul intuition, or in-tuition, meaning, teachings from within: Insights which support evolution of the lower intellect unto capacity realms of higher understanding and spiritual discernment.
Me: Yes the higher mind,(The lamp of the body) – the being mind brings forth intuition – tuition from within. For me this is experienced as claircognizance. I have never been taught anything much metphysically. I just seem to know the inner mysteries. Similairly I have never been taught to paint but I know how to paint. Sometimes I can know all about a person just by becoming aware of their presence. I know I can surrender to the presence of the moment as the presence. Knowing is different to thinking and feeling. It is another experience completely.
You: In other words, due to the laws of nature — and there being no end to evolution — awakening or, evolution, continues eternally,.
Me: Hmm with all due respect my friend – is that not the same as saying that the Son never quite makes it to the Fathers house? Or that Spirit aka Consciousness is constantly evolving meaning it is NOT the Alpha and the Omega and is not in essence, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. The Causative realms – the true Self – Spirit being Soul – is the finished product. (And on the 7th day he rested – all creation being created – is there not a verse in the bible that speaks of this principle? forgive me I am no Josh lol, I am not the familiar with the bible).
It is true the realms of effect are constantly evolving and becoming, whether these realms speak of the human condition on earth or another form or house entirely in another realm and/or solar system. The Incarnate Soul rises and fall in the eternity of the snake eating its own tail. The Causative realms always remain the same. Fully conscious of being Awareness.
I was just saying to Josh this morning that evolution or involution if you like saw us become conscious of ourselves as an animal in which we only knew ourselves physically. We then evolved into being conscious of another realm of being mentally. We are now in this season becoming conscious of ourselves as Awareness and becoming conscious of ourselves Spiritually. There are many dimensions of being that must be made conscious. It is like Jung says, “We are there to make the unconscious conscious”.
Matter like its creator is eternal. The forms it assumes are not. When something is eternal it is complete. I shared a post with my group this morning that I think is pertinent to the point I am making. I confident you will see that it is….
In liberation no one awakens, the seeker simply falls away
It is only the thinking mind that seeks! The being mind, the true mind does not seek. It has nothing to seek. It knows itself beyond mind. It is conscious of itself as Awareness.
When you hold a meditative mind that stills all thoughts and feelings, one becomes conscious of the Awareness – the Soul behind them. This is Self – Realization.
When conscious thought is stilled and one’s presence, ones consciousness is no longer caught up in or distracted by thought arising from a disconnected mind – thoughts containing memories, judgments and future projections – one become conscious of being Awareness. (The spirit and soul come together – consciousness and awareness become one). You see reality for the first time.
Awareness is everything. Be conscious of it. Know it is a non-objective experience, which is alien to the egoic mind that clings to objects.
You: Soul awakening thus is really another term for conscious evolution
Me: Yes yes yes! We are becoming as an incarnate soul or vessel for Spirit being Soul more conscious of the fullness of our being.
You: as opposed to unconscious evolution or, biblical ‘suffering’. For, while being spiritually asleep, the soul is still evolving unconsciously — living our Heaven unconsciously — living without ability of choice through generational retention of subconscious programming.
Me: Agreed my friend! The conscious mind works under the law of cause and effect until it comes into alignment with the rest of its being. Then Being the law it works in accordance with it. The law being intelligent love, peace, balance, harmony, oneness of being. We need no longer live by thought alone but by knowing. Knowing ourselves as omniscient. Its kind of like the brain cell instantly making connections to every other brain cell in the mind. Realizing its oneness it has access to all being as the one. Rather than being a drop in the ocean, one is the ocean in one drop.
The mother (One true Soul) and the father (Spirit) constantly mould their son subconsciously – unconsciously to the egoic mind. Conscious Awareness is always filtering through the incarnate Soul subconsciously to the conscious mind. The more conscious the conscious mind becomes, the more it grows in Awareness until the awareness of the Incarnate Soul merges with the true awareness of the One Soul. This is how the Potter moulds the clay.
For you will certainly carry out God’s purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or John. – Unknown.
Free will is only for the realized. For the unrealized it is absolutely deterministic.
Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure. The mind really is nothing more than an advanced and spectacular preprogrammed computer. It has no real life of its own unless it has WI-FI
You: With there being no point where evolution ceases, thus there can be no term, post initial awakening, called ‘fully awakened’ . But, by daily meditation and transcendence, we can each reach the highest point of human evolution on this earth plane by awakening and experiencing through the inner faculties.
Me” I agree if we are speaking of the realms of Effect.
You: Such provides a springboard-state of soul purity — expansion of consciousness — which becomes established, resulting in catapulting the human soul out of lower carnal orbit unto Higher planes of Divine Existence.
As we’re each journey-soul channels in evolving consciousness, thus, whatever level of evolution soul attains or gains in this realm of Matter, it retains for further expression in Higher Planes of consciousness.
To this outcome — as vessels of establishing eternity consciousness and the Will of God — earth and the human body are the gateway outlets to further our soul’s evolution unto greater planes of Existence.
Me: I see your point if speaking of the Incarnate Soul – most definitely.
You: Blessings, Tracy, and Good morning to you too there in sunny New Zealand.
Me: It is a good morning made better by conversing with you. Thank you once again for taking the time to share your pearls of wisdom with me. I truly do appreciate them. And thank you again for allowing me to post your really insightful post from the other day. My group will surely love it as I did! I look foward to many more such correspondence 🙂
I’m reproducing this small section of your reply, Tracy.
And thank you kindly for the reply.
“you” of course refers to me, and,
“Me” refers to you.
You: In other words, due to the laws of nature — and there being no end to evolution — awakening or, evolution, continues eternally.
Me: Hmm with all due respect my friend – is that not the same as saying that the Son never quite makes it to the Fathers house? Or that Spirit aka Consciousness is constantly evolving meaning it is NOT the Alpha and the Omega and is not in essence, omnipotent.
So, Just to clarify this later point on what I said.
What I mean, Tracy, is:
Evolution continues for those who have not as yet experienced inner awakening — have not experienced their own true eternal Self, which Self — the Absolute — alpha and omega — is always present and unchanging.
When the higher Self is realized within consciousness, thus the purpose of evolution, for such individual soul, has been fulfilled. In other words, evolution finds ultimate fulfillment in God-consciousness — the highest state of human evolution. And, while evolution still carries on within, our Realized Self remains totally unaffected, rather its the Witness. Our life is now lived in harmony with all the laws of nature presiding over evolution. Thus, as a Self-realized soul, our every individual action, both mental and physical, now influence the laws of nature, influence evolution — wow, what a great and beautiful opportunity we each can come upon. Such is the value of a Realized soul’s activity. That, our every mental and physical activity qualify as Higher Self-expression which expression now influences evolution. Thus, our realized state of God consciousness now becomes nature’s need.
On a related matter, Tracy. The laws of nature are named: Rajas, Tamas and Sattva, which combined dynamic constitute the innumerable laws of nature. One dynamic creates, another maintains and the third dissolves — thus there are three elements to the process of the eternal laws of Nature, but, which many, on referring to these dynamics, refer only to cause and effect, referring to these as two elements when there are three elements.
That said — and in view of how our every inner created act influences evolution’s outpourings within each of us — reaching Self-realization is surely the imperative for living life in harmony, peace, abundant happiness and compassionate love on this earth plane.
To this outcome, of living inner harmony with Nature as outlined in the Bhagavad-Gita ch 2 v 45, it’s necessary that the mind transcends these three gunas — the laws of nature — which transcendence happens naturally in mantra meditation. Such is why attuning with these laws and their end expression, evolution, is so utterly vital to attaining God-consciousness and eternal soul liberation.
From our steady daily practice of meditation — leading to transcendence — God consciousness develops seamlessly through three stages. First, from the waking state to transcendental consciousness, which state forms into cosmic consciousness, which then goes to form God consciousness — the highest state of human evolution.
Unlike New Zealand, Tracy, in Ireland now we’re in our winter: lots of rain sleet, hail, and a new storm it seems daily. But, as we say here, ah, sure it’s grand day!
Blessings, and have a lovely day there in the glorious Kiwi sunshine.
Hi Raymond 🙂
Yes, perfectly said. Though we use different terminology our principles remain the same. We stop being subject to the law when we realize ‘consciously’ we are the law. Then we work in accordance with it AS it. The law being Love, which has no karma. karma can only operate in separation. Consciousness – our true intelligence expresses itself as Awareness aka Soul and Soul is pure love. Every Incarnate Soul is subject to the Law of Soul (the 7 universal principles) until it becomes becomes fully conscious.
When matter or effect is no longer under personal cause consciousness (after we have given up the ghost as a Incarnate Soul) it reverts back to being under the true Cause consciousness of the impersonal (Our true Self even if we are not conscious of it).
Ireland! That means you have one of those groovy accents that sounds super cool but completely incomprehensible to me LOL. I love it.
It’s certainly a hot sunny day in the City of Sails (Auckland) and though most would love it, I do not so much. Believe it or not I envy you your weather. I am a true pluviophile! I love winter! Thunder, lightning, storms – all of it – I love it, I love it, I love it. Perhaps it is in the genes. My grandparents on my fathers side were Welsh and Irish and on my mothers they are Scottish and English. So speaking of Ireland and its weather, it is clear I am on the wrong Island. I need to move from the top of the North Island to the bottom of the South Island where the weather is more agreeable to me lol. I have decided on Te Anau. It is absolutely beautiful. I wish I could upload photos and show you however that is not possible on this site. Google it 🙂
Just hoping life supports my decision 🙂 I have realized, the hard way of course, that life is always right, so I flow with it. Resisting it is painful and I have a low tolerance for any kind of pain lol For the time being I content myself in knowing I am right where I need to be for whatever reasons. Certainly not the weather though 😋
I should be about writing however I am not. I am instead watching Raised by Wolves. The woman in the show said, why does the mind betray itself and I thought this a very pertinent question for today’s world. It betrays itself as it lives in duality outside of its Soul or Awareness. (In that it is not conscious of it). Its oneness of Soul being Spirit. Living in duality means the mind rises in copious thoughts and their subsequent emotions which often oppose each other. Another reason to keep thine I single. LOL you have to excuse me – everything I see, think, breathe has some metaphysical meaning attached to it.
Thank you again for you reply and communication – it’s been a pleasure.
Loved what you wrote and I’ve seen alot of what you’re saying in my times of study and meditation myself.
From Adam and Eve to the birth of Christ the story can be boiled down to that the Old Testament is just simply from carnality(old testament) Even the concept of God in the OT is quite similar to today. The carnal mind cannot fathom Goad at all.
Christ(The new Testament)is just the enlightened and higher mind. I mean that is the goal anyway. To BECOME the Christ. The New Testament is the Christ mind, the renewed and overcoming mind that doesn’t constrain or limit God. As he is so are WE
Thank you John for your kind words. Yes the carnal mind is the original sin. I am posting something I wrote on my group this morning, so I thought I would share it here with you, seen as how you have resonated with earlier posts. I thought you might like it.
Forgive them Father for they know not what they are doing – Luke 23: 34
ORIGINAL SIN AND FORGIVENESS
It is only through understanding that true forgiveness is gained. Quite often that understanding is never gained, so what forgiveness is given, is half hearted. One so calls ‘forgives’ but doesn’t forget, which translates to; I will never really get over what you did to me. That is not really forgiveness is it.
We all identify as the mind – all of us. This is the original sin so to speak, as all sin stem or originate from this misidentification. Once you identify with mind you will start creating false images (thoughts) with it. They are false for they are generated via the mental realm as opposed to the Spiritual realm. Thoughts will be leavened – they will rise and from their rising, abominations will be born such as war, poverty and disease.
Therefore, all of us are navigating the world blind – without Spiritual vision. None of us really ‘know’ that we are connected or that hurting another is actually akin to hurting ourselves. Theoretically we understand this might be true but in truth but in truth we lack the experience of actually knowing. We do not have the true ‘consciousness’ of this awareness, of this understanding.
Each individual egoic mind, cut off from its source, adds to the creation of the collective or universal egoic mind, that is living in the dark just like the individual. In truth there is only one Spirit, one Soul, one mind. With each individual that falls, we all fall. Each individual that rises, raises us all. You could liken the world to one mind with all of us being one brain cell of the mind.
With all this being said, it is clear to the see the world reflects the egoic mind rather than the true mind. It’s a dog-eat-dog world isn’t it with all of us having helped shape and create it in our ignorance. If we do not do anything to contribute to the evil, we turn a blind eye and do nothing which isn’t much better. A world where only the richest survive and thrive. A world where half the world dies of starvation while the other half die of obesity. A world where people are looking for relief from this insane upside-down back to front world of ours. In drugs, alcohol, sex, relationships, food, hoarding – you name it, the mind will desire it. Where there is desire there is often addiction and where there is addiction there is suffering. We hurt others just so that we can feel okay – just so we can live with ourselves one day longer. For our minds are not always our best friend, are they? Our minds torment us, as much as they give us pleasure, if not more. We are such dual minded creatures.
We are all of us subject to the mind. The good and the bad alike. All of us look for our good in the outer world that we are ignorantly disconnected too within. Our disconnection to our good within renders us no better than chimpanzees arguing over the banana pile. The so-called world persecutors seen in the ‘one percent’ who give up their humanity for money and power at the expense of the whole, would not do so if they knew themselves beyond the egoic mind. If they felt a connection to the rest of us and the planet. For true empowerment found in the love of being One Spirit overflows to all humanity giving us a sense of connection that we simply do not have as an egoic mind. As a mind cut off like a branch from the vine.
Only egoic minds measure and weigh, judge and condemn. Do you do this? Be honest? If you then you cannot throw a stone at another. The paedophile is no different to the heroine peddler on the street. The food addict is no different to the over worker. Addiction is addiction irrespective of what form it takes. Being addicted to runners high or cocaine. We are still seeking our pleasure outside of ourselves rather than within. Therefore, stop weighing crimes up in order to make yourself and others feel superior or inferior. Very few are sane in this world. All of us live in glass houses. Therefore, let he who is without sin cast the first stone!
If you think you are without an addiction, then think again. We all lose power to something even if that something is deemed a so called ‘good’ something. We are all subject to the mind and the minds ways: familiarity, habit and please seeking behaviour. We all partake from the tree of knowledge don’t we. We all eat its fruits. How many of take from the tree of life? How many of us live by intuition and faith rather than knowledge? Can you hold a meditative mind connected to our inner Source or is your mind rising in one thought after looking for your truth, your good in the mind and body of the world, rather than Spirit?
Bear in mind taking thought itself is a habit and not a good one. I can bet my bottom dollar you think, therefore are subject to your thoughts. Thoughts that see you serving humanity half the time, while the other half you destroy humanity and/or yourself. I’ll wager that if you are nasty to others and can’t forgive them, it is because consciously or unconsciously you do the same thing to yourself. How many times have you laid awake at night cringing in shame because you have done or said something that either insulted your soul or another’s?
Therefore, have a heart. Even if you cannot understand why a person has done what they have done, know the same is also true of you. All of us are a villain in someone’s story, in some measure. The measure is not important. Is one slap in the face of humanity really that much better than a hundred? “He that is without sin among you cast the first stone” – John 8:7
Egoic thoughts are created by a mind that doesn’t understand itself. That does not know itself, seeing itself separate to the whole. Much like a cancer cell. A cancer cell grows and lives at the expense of the whole because it has lost connection with its DNA/RNA (Source). Are we any different? As above so below. As in mind so in body.
What one of us have not committed actions that left us crying into our pillow at night saying, I didn’t mean too, I did it out of my own pain. God I’m sorry and most of all I’m sorry for all the times I wasn’t sorry and shouldn’t been. What one of us wouldn’t be set free from the forgiveness other people need from us?
Remember understanding and forgiving means you wish them healing, not punishment, because you know under the right circumstances you could have done the same thing perhaps. You like them are just as subject to the mind even if one’s sins are different. The principle isn’t.
It is not all bad news however for the thoughts that you create, and their consequent physical reality are not REAL. They are not real because they were created by a mind that is unaware or cut off from its truth, its source, its LIFE. False images aka thoughts, created by a mind cut off from its Spirit create false manifestations. There is no reality in sickness, disease, poverty and crime. They are ALL egoic manifestations. Manifestations that pass away when the body that created them does. When the body that experienced them does. This world is nothing but a dream in the One Mind of Spirit whether you are conscious of this reality or not. It is true that while in the midst of a nightmare we suffer, however all of us wake up at one point or another. All of us forget within minutes the dreams or nightmares that at one time caused us so much pain. Your true Self in and of Spirit is not this mind, is not this body, is not this world.
Thank you for all of that. Quite alot to digest, but a great explanation. It has taken me years to discover what you just wrote. And it’s hard to explain this to anyone that’s in tradition. They immediately reject it as out of context,etc. But the literal never made sense to me.
Good morning John 🙂
People interupt the bible according to their Inner Light. If I were to give you a book – any book to read in the dark, you would literally seeing nothing. When the sun/son rises however, as fate would have it, we are able to discern more and more of what is written.
“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light:. – Matthew 6:22
The eyes this verse refers to, which the blind do not see, is the Inner I, not the eyes of flesh that are informed by the outer world rather than the inner world. The Inner I is ones conscious mind, thought, presence or I am-ness married to the subconscious,the heart, emotion, love in and of the present moment.
Together the united minds constitute the lamp of the body: meditative mind, the being mind, the still and intuitively quiescent mind that brings forth the light behind the form to go before us making all the crooked places straight.
The bible literally comes across as insane when read with the eyes of flesh that have no spiritual vision. But when discerned with the open Inner I, the lamp of the body, the bible comes to life rendering a profoundly beautiful and wise map that leads us home to ourselves – to each other.
All I know is that I used to be blind, but now I can see! John 9:25
Have a brilliant day!
I wrote the following on 1/29/22; it goes a little along the same thought process. http://je-xxy.com/2022/01/29/the-serpent/
Hi John
That was awesome. I laughed out loud when I read the part about the talking snake and mental illness.
Where you spoke about this>>>
Genesis 3:1 says, Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, You must not eat from any tree in the garden?”
I saw it this way…
Satan (the egoic mind – the conscious mind disconnected to its Source and looking out into sense-object) says to Eve (the emotional body and subconscious that manifests all creation) – “Did God really say you must not eat from any tree in the garden?” This is the conscious mind convincing the subconscious mind to manifest his delusional shite (lol) Shite that is basically disconnected thought and feelings that have arisen from a consciousness or conscious mind ignorant of its Source) The conscious mind itself, without being married to the subconscious (Forming the Inner Spiritual I) that connects us to our true Soul/Spirit is like a branch cut off from the vine. The Incarnate Soul is deceived into birthing abominations within the One Soul. Eve has mistaken Satan – the conscious mind without its Source, for Adam that is the true Consciousness/Intelligence Behind Eve that gave birth to her. This is how I see Eve bring deceived. Adam is not the conscious mind (ego). Adam is the Inner I or Christ. The Inner I is the conscious mind while married to the One Soul being Spirit.
Adam and Eve in the physical (the conscious and subconscious minds) must come together before the mind can merge with the true Adam and Eve – the true Soul expressing Spirit.
Anyway that is my 2c worth lol.
Thank you for sharing your well thought out metaphysical truths concerning the bible. It was interesting 🙂
Hi everybody,
just wanted to say how brilliant the backwards and forwards between Tracey and Joshua was.
It had me completely captivated. There was a lot of deep conversation going on which is beneficial to us all.
I would have got involved but every time I wanted to Raymond answered for me so I just followed the dialogue between you guys. Thank you for the great article Joshua and looking forward to the second part not least the comments that follow 😊
Hi Kris
Always good to hear from you, and thanks for this nice comment. I have to say, Kris, I’ve always found your comments here on SOS most interesting and on-point.
Thus it’s important I feel that we express our present spiritual understanding as it arises in consciousness, because, someone, somewhere desperately needs to read your spiritual outpouring.
A simple sentence casually expressed from the Heart can have a profound healing impact on another who is open to hearing our words exactly as expressed. Thus, through our happy spiritual expression, do we further nourish and germinate even greater happiness seeds within our-selves for further divine expression. Such is how we gain a more intuitive relationship or sense of unity with our Self. For, it’s by first giving that we receive, in that, by giving or expressing our inner Self, our natural ego-less happiness, ensures return of that same expressed pure happiness, only multiplied many times. This expression of course doesn’t have to be verbal or in writings. For a Heart-infused smile, or loving silence in conversation, is equally Self expression, or Self giving. Thus the giver is always first to receive back whatever the nature expressed — it’s the cosmic law.
Doesn’t it make so much sense, Kris, that, for overall spiritual well-being and lasting inner peace, that we express only awareness sourced through our spiritual Heart. Only thoughts and feelings that are universal, that are life-supporting for everyone.
Blessings
Hi Kris & John
I am glad the exchange between Josh and I was taken in the light it was given – to uncover the truth that is always in all ways there. The truth is always impersonal, therefore Josh and I never take each other personally when debating.
I have always said John that the door to receiving is opened by giving so I loved what you wrote here! So apt! In fact I was saying to Josh yesterday that love is not something you feel after some reward or pay off. True love does not love within reason. In fact love loves despite reason. Love is something we get from the moment but something we bring to it. For we ARE love. This is body. Love aka Soul is the expression of true Intelligence aka Spirit.
I wrote this for my group and I hope you dont mind me sharing it on here…
When you do things from your Soul, you feel a river moving in you. A joy. – Rumi
THERE IS A RIVER IN ALL OF US
I can remember as a wee lass around the age of 4 or 5 telling my mum there was a river in my head. I spoke to her about it the other day and she recalled my saying this on a few occasions. Let me explain this river.
The river, in my mind was where I went to bathe. To clean myself of the dust of the world. Dust being thoughts and feelings. While bathing in this river, my mind was at peace as there were no thoughts or feelings to disturb my childlike peace. In this time of stillness and solitude, I would receive information, that I never asked for. This flow of information was just part of the river.
The reason answers come when the mind is still as opposed to busy is because if the mind is busy in giving its attention to its own thoughts, it is not conscious when intuition comes forth. It is like someone telling you some really important information while your attention is completely wrapped up in something else like your phone or a movie you are watching etc. If your presence of being, if your attention or consciousness is in the moment, free and consciously aware, then you will be free to become conscious of your own Soul intuiting you.
Thoughts act like a barrier to intuition much like branches and debris would act like a barrier to the free flow of water in a stream.
I can and have many times likened the conscious mind to the epiglottis that either serves the stomach or the lungs depending on how it holds itself in service of the body. So too with the conscious mind. It is either going to serve itself by keeping its presence (Consciousness) in thought or it is going to serve Spirit by being present in its own awareness. One cannot be in two places at once serving two different masters.
You are conscious awareness – that is all you are – that is your true Self. Therefore, pull yourself together and be conscious of your own awareness rather than losing yourself to thoughts conjured up by a mind cut off from its Source.
If you are present in thought, then you are no longer in the river. You are no longer free to receive tuition from within. You are either going to listen to the voice of Spirit that speaks in silent awareness, through knowing and intuition or you are listening to your own voice in thought. Do you see?
Once Self-Realization has been achieved, once the individual conscious awareness as merged with one’s true Conscious Awareness (God) then thoughts and feelings are called true images. They are of a different quality and quantity. There is not a lot to think about when you know. Knowing being the true voice of the omniscient Soul being Spirit.
So, the words Be Still (mentally) and know that I AM (true Self) make sense now, right?
Nice reading you both Kris and John. Have a fine Friday morning – or Thursday or night perhaps depending on where you are all located. ? Lol…its such a small world init 🙂 And the wheels of the world go round and round, round and round.
thank you Raymond,
I absolutely agree with you.
I would also add from my perspective that the outpouring of the spirit fills our heart and overspills and touches the people we have contact with, and hopefully scatters seeds. “We reap what we sow”.
When something is expressed from within our true self, love, only good can come out of it.
Love from the soul is pure and free from all subjection.
The reason why this website is so successful is because the majority speak from sincerity in pursuit of truth. It can get passionate at times but you can always feel the love and respect for each others views even if one doesn’t totally agree.
The truth, is all that really matters, no room for the ego.
We are all on a beautiful journey and hopefully we can all reach our full potential.
1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Tracey I agree with you that love is the true expression of intelligence
True love from the true source conquers all!!
Thank you, Kris,
Very nicely put. Lots of spiritual love and mature insight there.
A timely scripture reminder indeed about the difference between human love and spiritual or God’s love. The beautiful journey you mention, Kris, yes, is pretty much about the Realization and ultimate expression of this Divine love from within our own spiritual Heart. Recent events in the world show just why Divine love is so utterly imperative — how everything can so easily change for the good of all, through this simple change of Heart status.
Blessings
Hi josh,
I’ve been looking through your blog as I’m on a bit of a journey with finding out about this stuff at the moment. I saw a comment on a blog post back in 2018 and you talked about a book you were writing. Is this still the case? Has it been published?
Thanks
Thanks for the question, Joanna. No, it hasn’t been published. I write here and there, but the more I learn, the more I have to add and edit. When finally finished, I want it to be truly useful to people beyond just explaining scriptural symbols. I am hoping to add a lot more this summer when my work schedule gives me more time to stay focused on the book. So many other life duties right now 🙂
I promise to let the site readers know though when it is one day completed. Could still be a few years, or many several years. Thank you for your interest 🙂
This understanding of Adam and Eve may be correct, but I believe the symbolism encapsulates the principle of as above, so below. What I mean by this, is that the symbolism has multiple meanings that are separate but connected to each other. There are three parts to as above, so below. Above, the heavens. Below, the earth. And the center, us. If Biblical symbolism encapsulates this principle, then the symbolism will have a meaning related to the heavens above. Another meaning related to us as the center. And another meaning related to the earth below. I believe, that to fully understand the symbolism, all three parts must be known and understood. It is also possible, that those three parts are divided further into three parts. This all could be intentionally known and written, or it came to be as a natural circumstance of the universe reflecting itself above and below. I believe the central knowledge that the Adam and Eve relates to, is the relationship between the conscious mind (Adam) and the subconscious (Eve, born from Adam’s rib) mind and also related to the beginning stages of intellectual development, as the individual develops from infant to elder. When you are born, you don’t have the baggage that years of life adds on. There is no shame or regret built by life experiences, as an infant or toddler. This is symbolized by the nakedness and the lack of shame by Adam and Eve. The rest requires understanding of the relationship between the conscious (Adam, man, masculine) and subconscious (Eve, woman, feminine) mind. The subconscious mind sustains us. It makes the lungs breath in and out and the heart beat without any attention from our conscious mind. Our health, internal and external, depends on our subconscious mind and her relationship with the conscious mind. She has the womb which bears the fruit, whose seed is within itself. Even though she is responsible for our health and sustains us, she is at the mercy of the conscious mind. She must follow his command, as a tree only bears fruit after its kind. In revelations, she is the harlot in scarlet riding the scarlet beast. The beast is the conscious mind. In Proverbs, she is the women of wisdom and understanding and also the women of all ungodly things. Whether she is the women of wisdom and riches or the women of death and poverty, depends on the conscious mind, as she is born from his rib. If a man treats her like a good wife, she will bear good fruit and vice versa.
Hi Chris
I have said the same thing to Josh. Satan is most definitely the conscious mind. cut off from its Source. The conscious mind is not Adam, the true Intelligence or true Consciousness that embodies the Soul. It pretends to be though – it is an imposter, trying to create life by taking thought. The conscious mind (until realization) is like a branch cut off from the vine. The conscious mind must harmonize and join with Eve (the subconscious – the only part of the Soul the conscious mind has dominion over) before together they become a channel or can merge with the full Soul (Awareness) that is directed by one’s true Consciousness (Adam or Spirit or w/e).
Eve the subconscious mistakes the conscious mind for Adam, the true intelligence. Fortunately, the son, the conscious mind only has dominion over his own subconscious due to that being the only part of the Soul he is conscious of. The true Soul or rather the fullness of Soul is directed by one’s true Consciousness
Therefore, the conscious mind must sit in the subconscious which is present moment awareness (The subconscious is always in the present moment because it IS the present moment) and rest in peace within the Soul (the present moment) which allows the conscious mind to realize its true Intelligence, its true Self as Consciousness (Spirit) being Awareness (Soul)….being consciously aware. This is Self-realization.
The imposter (the conscious mind) is conscious but not aware. The conscious mind is rising in itself – in consciousness- so male is rising in male (which leads to all the quotes about homosexuality) rather than male rising in the female (Awareness so Soul).
I rushed this as I have to go out soon so I hope this all made sense lol. I can rewrite it if it doesnt at some point 🙂
Yes, I realize I was wrong about Adam being the conscious mind. Thanks for the reply.
Hi Chris!
Just wanted to add some additional info that I thought may be useful to you. The higher and lower state always has to be distinguished in scripture. Adam before the fall represents the archetypal man, or the divine nature of man on the three higher planes (Atma, buddhi, Manas), or Father, Holy Spirit, and Son.
The fallen Adam represents the fallen state of the mind, or that mind which is the conscious mind energized by desire of the lower 4 planes (physical, astral – emotional, kama (selfish desire) and lower manas, or thought intertwined with selfish desire. However, it is important to point out that even this lower state of mind can receive impressions from above, the higher manas, in the conscience. What the fallen Adam produced were still two possibilities, or cain and abel. Abel is symbolic of the higher impressions, and cain the lower selfish desires, which are contrary to the higher nature’s spiritual essence.
Thanks for the insight, Josh.
I understand what you are saying and it’s probably correct. But I am quite sure that the symbolism has a central principle, that all other representations of that symbol branch off from. The symbolism of Adam and Eve has multiple, separate but interrelated meanings (branches) supported by a main branch, a central understanding. From what I can tell, it always goes back to one thing. And that one thing is the flow of consciousness from the singularity to the expanse. From the seed to fruit. From the internal to the external. From the alpha to the o-mega. The word Torah even comes from a root word that means to flow. This is related to another central understanding which is the contrast between the singularity and the expanse or the internal against the eternal. This contrast (contrast is important for there is no form without it) is perceived as a duality. But duality creates wholeness. We see this presented within God’s name. The tetragrammatron (sp?), God’s unspoken name, YHWH, relates to the Lord, Adonai, or Most High. This represents the singularity of God. The seed. His other name is Elohim and is related to the seas. This represents the expanse of God. The fruit. A tetrahedron is a common geometric metaphor for this contrast. The tip represents the singularity and the base represents the expanse. God’s name represents the flow of consciousness from the internal (seed) to the external (fruit). Also related to the mark of the beast on the forehead (internal, seed) and right hand (external, fruit). I think the implications here, is that the lower desires are just as much of an expression of the higher desires as the higher desires themselves. I think that to truly know yourself, you must know both sides in intimate detail. I have always looked to the heavens for answers. I have found the celestial bodies seek a center. A balance between the within and without and you can’t find balance and harmony without an opposition.
I have to add the importance of Genesis 1:1 in this understanding of the flow of consciousness. In Hebrew, it starts with the word Bereshit. The root of bereshit is bet. Bet means in, or inside.
It is also important to know that Genesis creates a form, when its letters are properly paired. It forms a two-torus. The toroidal vortex is mathematically reduced from the two-torus and it draws every letter of the Hebrew alphabet (alef-bet). A related form draws the Arabic letters and a similar form draws the Greek letters. This brings a whole new level of meaning to the tree bearing fruit whose seed is within itself. The toroidal field exist everywhere in nature and there is a lot scientific research uncovering the huge importance of EM fields and light in everything from astrophysics to biology. This shows whoever wrote the Torah were quite sophisticated and reveals just how beautiful the Bible really is. There is also some evidence that there are meditation practices embedded in the Torah, using the original hand gestures that Hebrew letters represent and is related to the toroidal flame of consciousness.
Great comment!
You state: I think the implications here, is that the lower desires are just as much of an expression of the higher desires as the higher desires themselves. I think that to truly know yourself, you must know both sides in intimate detail.”
Yes 🙂 Hence why the necessity of experiencing the tree of knowledge, and then having to eat its fruit. Notice how both trees are in the midst of the garden as well. The way back to the tree of life must go through the tree of knowledge, which sums up here what you say when seen esoterically. The key to understand here, as you point out in different words, is that self-consciousness must be gained through adversity and experience, to actualize its potential self-inherent nature.
Quote :
“A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has never overcome them”
From : Memories, Dreams, Reflections Paperback – April 23, 1989
by C. G. Jung (Author), Aniela Jaffe (Editor), Clara Winston (Translator), Richard Winston (Translator)
https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/2022/04/04/a-man-who-has-not-passed-through-the-inferno-of-his-passions-has-never-overcome-them
Quote :
“A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has never overcome them”
From : Memories, Dreams, Reflections Paperback – April 23, 1989
by C. G. Jung (Author), Aniela Jaffe (Editor), Clara Winston (Translator), Richard Winston (Translator)
https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/2022/04/04/a-man-who-has-not-passed-through-the-inferno-of-his-passions-has-never-overcome-them
==== submitted on April 5, 2022, 17:18 local time (Bangkok, Thailand)
Quote :
“A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has never overcome them”
From : Memories, Dreams, Reflections Paperback – April 23, 1989
by C. G. Jung (Author), Aniela Jaffe (Editor), Clara Winston (Translator), Richard Winston (Translator)
https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/2022/04/04/a-man-who-has-not-passed-through-the-inferno-of-his-passions-has-never-overcome-them
=====
sorry for the multiple entries.
my replies did not get through, so i did some experimenting.
Jung has had a huge impact on my thoughts.